Ask about Judaism

[agricola]

Thank's Agricola. If I understand correctly a prophet may or may not be predicting the future or he may or may not be a prophet for future prediction in the Jewish sense. It changes a few things.

Yes, that is a fair assessment. Many Christians make the assumption that what Christianity thinks the 'OT' means is the same thing Judaism thinks, except for some reason, what is so obvious to them isn't clear to Jews (hence the questions I get from well meaning folks - they just need to EXPLAIN things better and of course I should See The Light).

The Christian OT and the Hebrew Bible are understood and interpreted differently enough that I have heard many Jews (particularly) declare that the OT and the Hebrew Bible are not the same book at all - even though a Protestant OT and a Hebrew Bible contain exactly the same books - just not in the same order. Re-arranging the order of the books, in fact, does change the overall impression.

The Christian versions end with Malachi (unresolved prophecies) while the Hebrew Bible ends with Chronicles (prophecies fulfilled).

[Scott]

The OT talks about a time when the human lifespan was something around 800 years or so. Wondering if you take this literally? Do you think this is true? My son just asked me this question, not sure how to answer.

[agricola]

Me personally, orthodox Judaism, liberal Judaism, or most Jews?

Anyway, generally speaking, everything in Genesis before Abraham shows up is typically read as metaphorical to at least SOME degree (if not entirely so) and even the most traditionalist extreme orthodox (who tend to be a lot more literal - though never quite AS literal as Christian literalists) will say that the ages of man prior to the flood were perhaps exaggerated to make a point - what that group DOES say (because I happened to read about that recently) is that God INITIALLY let humans live very long lives, but since they abused the privilege (becoming very evil people) he gradually reduced the typical age of humans at the time of the flood, until we reached what it normal now - with 'to 120' a pious wish but a rare reality for the very few, and a typical age of seventy to eighty years (threescore years and ten, and if strong, fourscore years = 80). So you see people of extreme age prior to Noah, and Noah and his sons lived long lives, but not nearly AS long, and by the time you reach Abraham, etc, 90 to 100 is really getting well up there for sure.

The last person mentioned in the Hebrew Bible with an extreme age is Moses, who made it to 120. Even nowadays, that is pretty much considered about the maximum normal lifespan POSSIBLE - the last several 'oldest people' have died at around 116 years.

[B.H.]

The oldest person ever that can be documented was a French woman who was born in 1875 and died in 1997.

[agricola]

The oldest person ever that can be documented was a French woman who was born in 1875 and died in 1997.

There you are then - 122, and an extremely rare feat. The world has a lot of centenarians and many of them live on into the 110-115 range, with a very very few making it past that point. And although we've seen a lot of 'increased lifespan' reports because of better nutrition and health care, in actual fact, the MAXIMUM lifespan of humans hasn't budged over time AT ALL. What has happened is that infant and youth mortality has dropped substantially, so the 'average age' at death has risen from the 40's to the 70's, only because fewer people die before the age of, say, 10. (that is, the average has gone up because of fewer infant/childhood death, not because the RANGE of ages has changed). Even in the darkest of dark ages, a few rare folks made it to 100 and past it - but never very far past!

Superstitious Jews - especially in past centuries - would answer a question like 'how old are you' by saying something like '55 to 120'. There was an idea that if you stated your age, the angel of death might think that you meant you thought you were at the right age to die, and you might die. So they added 'to 120' every time they stated their age, so the angel of death would understand that they REALLY meant to live to 120.

It is still a custom to wish people 'to 120!' on their birthday - sort of 'many happy returns (to 120)'.

[B.H.]

I hope agricola lives to be 150 and is still doing geological work at that age.

[agricola]

I hope agricola lives to be 150 and is still doing geological work at that age.

Good grief! I was kind of planning to retire well before that!

[Scott]

I hope agricola lives to be 150 and is still doing geological work at that age.

Good grief! I was kind of planning to retire well before that!

May need to re-evaluate your 401-k.

[B.H.]

Retirement? What's that?


Seriously, back before modern medicine came along the childhood death rate was unbelievably high. However, once one survived to age ten your chances of making it to 70 were pretty good.

[agricola]

If you survived childhood, you were strong and tough enough to make it to old age- BH is right.

Too many people think - when they read 'the average lifespan in (name century) was 45 years' - that people ALL died then. But that's an average that is low because so many children died. If a person survived past age 5 or so, they really did have a good chance of making it to 70, and that's been the case time out of mind, so to speak. Nowadays, the average skews to the high end, because of reduced child and infant mortality - due to, mostly, advances in public health especially clean drinking water. It isn't even 'medical care' that did it, mostly.

thank your local water utility and waste treatment plants!