1 - on all other nights we eat bread and/or matzoh. Tonight only matzoh.
2 - on all other nights we eat many kinds of vegetables (greens). Tonight we eat bitter herbs.
3 - on all other nights we don't dip our food. Tonight we dip twice.
4 - on all other nights we eat sitting up. Tonight we recline (eat at leisure).
BTW, if anybody is attending or thinking about attending a seder, be aware that the current seder developed AFTER the destruction of the Temple and it is framed as a Greek/Roman banquet. The Passover observance during Second Temple times (and the type of observance Jesus and the apostles would have known) was quite different - it was Temple oriented, it involved bringing a lamb to the Temple, cooking it whole and eating the entire lamb in one sitting - some of the elements would be similar, but hardly all.
Also, freshly prepared horseradish will take care of any sinus problems you may have!
Ask about Judaism
Re: Ask about Judaism
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
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Fellow Traveler
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:48 pm
Re: Ask about Judaism
I used to drop in for Shabbat at the reform synagogue in the town where I'm originally from. I was acqainted with the president and his wife. It was served by either visiting rabbis or rabbis in training as it was very small and could not afford a full time rabbi. The people were always pleasant and gracious to Christians who were curious about the Jewish faith.
When I moved to my current city, I found out that the oldest Jewish congregation in the state (also reform), was close by and I was eager to visit. I tried to call ahead but got nobody on the phone but the answering machine did the typical "come and join us in worship" type message that churches would so I figured it would still be ok. My wife and I got there, I put on a kippah, and we took a seat at the back. It was a lovely service. The rabbi spoke her part before introducing the main speaker. He was a gentleman from Israel and he spoke of life there. He lauded the evangelical Christians who supported the Jews and was fascinating to listen to. After the service, a few people welcomed us and the rabbi gave us a piece of the challah. She acted as if she spoke to us because she "had" to. She then asked if we were part of anther temple and I said we were Christians. She said "oh...." And did a 180 on us. She has been lauded by churches around the area and speaks and them and acts as if she is so tolerant in local publications. So I can't help but wonder what was her deal that particular night.
When I moved to my current city, I found out that the oldest Jewish congregation in the state (also reform), was close by and I was eager to visit. I tried to call ahead but got nobody on the phone but the answering machine did the typical "come and join us in worship" type message that churches would so I figured it would still be ok. My wife and I got there, I put on a kippah, and we took a seat at the back. It was a lovely service. The rabbi spoke her part before introducing the main speaker. He was a gentleman from Israel and he spoke of life there. He lauded the evangelical Christians who supported the Jews and was fascinating to listen to. After the service, a few people welcomed us and the rabbi gave us a piece of the challah. She acted as if she spoke to us because she "had" to. She then asked if we were part of anther temple and I said we were Christians. She said "oh...." And did a 180 on us. She has been lauded by churches around the area and speaks and them and acts as if she is so tolerant in local publications. So I can't help but wonder what was her deal that particular night.
Last edited by Fellow Traveler on Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Ask about Judaism
Maybe she was having her period.She acted as if she spoke to us because she "had" to
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
Re: Ask about Judaism
Right now, we (the family) are deciding whether we will follow Israeli (and Reform) practice and end Passover after SEVEN days, or whether we will follow traditional American (that is, Ashkenaz or European Jewish) practice and wait until the end of the EIGHTH day. This has implications for dinner tonight, since tonight at sundown will be the end of the seventh day.
(Seven days is 'Biblical' but for centuries the common practice of Jewish communities outside of Israel is to add an extra day to ALL holidays, to account for uncertainties surrounding dates relating to Israel (where the 'time' a holiday begins is - or was - determined by observation of the moon's cycles, basically).
In Israel, they are 'right there' so there isn't a question. Reform's opinion is that nowadays we have much better clocks and communication so there is no longer a question about when something is happening in Jerusalem. Orthodox opinion is that if it was good enough for grandpop it is good enough to be set in stone forever so don't change. Conservative, as usually, is mixed - mostly orthodox in practice but reform in leaning -
Our family is a bit complicated - we are Conservative generally but also hold membership in a Renewal style congregation (decidedly 'reform'), plus DH is Israeli...in the past we've gone the full eight days but we always have to wrestle with it. I'm more and more inclined to go with the seven days, actually.
There are someanother difference in practice between different communities, this one more cultural than anything else:
Sephardic vs Ashkenaz:
may one eat - or not eat - kitniyot during Pesach?
Let me explain....next post.
(Seven days is 'Biblical' but for centuries the common practice of Jewish communities outside of Israel is to add an extra day to ALL holidays, to account for uncertainties surrounding dates relating to Israel (where the 'time' a holiday begins is - or was - determined by observation of the moon's cycles, basically).
In Israel, they are 'right there' so there isn't a question. Reform's opinion is that nowadays we have much better clocks and communication so there is no longer a question about when something is happening in Jerusalem. Orthodox opinion is that if it was good enough for grandpop it is good enough to be set in stone forever so don't change. Conservative, as usually, is mixed - mostly orthodox in practice but reform in leaning -
Our family is a bit complicated - we are Conservative generally but also hold membership in a Renewal style congregation (decidedly 'reform'), plus DH is Israeli...in the past we've gone the full eight days but we always have to wrestle with it. I'm more and more inclined to go with the seven days, actually.
There are someanother difference in practice between different communities, this one more cultural than anything else:
Sephardic vs Ashkenaz:
may one eat - or not eat - kitniyot during Pesach?
Let me explain....next post.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
First - what are kitniyot, and why does it matter?
Kitniyot are legumes, mostly - grains and vegetables that can be ground and used LIKE grains (flour) - these include most beans and peas, and also corn, and rice.
Why?
Because during Passover, we are forbidden absolutely to even OWN, much less eat, the five grains: wheat, barley, oats, spelt and rye. Only 'special' wheat that has been carefully watched over SINCE IT SPROUTED - and ground and baked within 18 minutes - is 'kosher for passover'. This is the 'unleavened bread' that is mandatory during Passover.
Again - mostly in Ashkenaz (the Jewish communities in eastern and central Europe) practice - it was known that other things could be ground into something looking like flours (beans) and other things at least LOOKED like wheat, barley, etc (corn, rice) so it because the common practice to avoid eating those things TOO.
AND - anything containing extracts FROM those things - and do you have any IDEA how many food and condiments have corn extracts in them????
This never really caught on in Sephardic communities (the Jewish communities in the middle east, north africa and central Asia).
Now an historical fact: although the FIRST Jews in America were actually Sephardic (1600's New Amsterdam) the MAJORITY of Jews in America are descended from Jewish emigrants from Europe.
So the practice throughout MOST of the US is Ashkenazic.
So -
can we have some corn? some rice? keep the ketchup, the salad dressing, the soft drinks...make risotto??
Recently, a movement in the US mostly in the Conservative movement, has suggested that the Committee on Law and Standards revisit the whole kitniyot thing, and put it aside as an outdated practice of limited value. And I'm all for that, actually.
Plus - as I mentioned, DH is Israeli, and in Israel the division between 'Ashkenazi' and 'Sephardi' while still present, is increasingly being erased by a generic 'Israeli' practice, which leans Sephardi, and Sephardi enjoy a much expanded diet during Passover!
Kitniyot are legumes, mostly - grains and vegetables that can be ground and used LIKE grains (flour) - these include most beans and peas, and also corn, and rice.
Why?
Because during Passover, we are forbidden absolutely to even OWN, much less eat, the five grains: wheat, barley, oats, spelt and rye. Only 'special' wheat that has been carefully watched over SINCE IT SPROUTED - and ground and baked within 18 minutes - is 'kosher for passover'. This is the 'unleavened bread' that is mandatory during Passover.
Again - mostly in Ashkenaz (the Jewish communities in eastern and central Europe) practice - it was known that other things could be ground into something looking like flours (beans) and other things at least LOOKED like wheat, barley, etc (corn, rice) so it because the common practice to avoid eating those things TOO.
AND - anything containing extracts FROM those things - and do you have any IDEA how many food and condiments have corn extracts in them????
This never really caught on in Sephardic communities (the Jewish communities in the middle east, north africa and central Asia).
Now an historical fact: although the FIRST Jews in America were actually Sephardic (1600's New Amsterdam) the MAJORITY of Jews in America are descended from Jewish emigrants from Europe.
So the practice throughout MOST of the US is Ashkenazic.
So -
can we have some corn? some rice? keep the ketchup, the salad dressing, the soft drinks...make risotto??
Recently, a movement in the US mostly in the Conservative movement, has suggested that the Committee on Law and Standards revisit the whole kitniyot thing, and put it aside as an outdated practice of limited value. And I'm all for that, actually.
Plus - as I mentioned, DH is Israeli, and in Israel the division between 'Ashkenazi' and 'Sephardi' while still present, is increasingly being erased by a generic 'Israeli' practice, which leans Sephardi, and Sephardi enjoy a much expanded diet during Passover!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
I'm kind of inoculated against orthodoxy, I guess. It has too much of the coc 'flavor' to me!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
Sooooo - what's next?
We are in the 'Counting of the Omer' period, and an omer is a rather like a bushel or a peck: it is a measure of (barley) grain. From Passover (the first day of) we count each day until the fiftieth day (seven weeks and a day) and then it is -
Shavuot (aka Shavuos, aka the Feast of Weeks, aka he Feast/Festival of Vows, aka the Festival of First Fruits - and to the Christians visiting - aka 'Pentecost' which means 'the Fiftieth (day)').
clear? Sure it is.
Shavuot - besides being the biblical 'Festival of First Fruits' is also the traditional anniversary of the Revelation of Torah at Mount Sinai.
Which probably explains why 'Pentecost' is an important CHRISTIAN holiday, since it is billed as the anniversary of the day the apostles got a Revelation in Jerusalem (complete with fire - of course, Sinai had fire AND smoke, but hey) - really, it is an obvious tie in - a new Pentecost with a new Revelation...
anyway.
what do we do then?
We eat a lot of cheesecake....
No, seriously. We eat a lot of cheesecake. Or rather, we eat dairy foods, because, traditionally, at Sinai the Children of Israel got the Law and found out about kosher-ness and therefore went through a purification process for POTS and avoided any meat for I think it was three days. Either that, or a connection to the 'milk and honey' motif - or maybe both.
However, besides the cheesecake, it is customary to a) stay up all night or at least until past midnight (because that's a good thing to do when you are very anxious and expectant, like waiting for Moses to make it down the mountain) and b) do a text study with a bit from Torah, something from Prophets, a selection from the Writings (like Psalms or something) and also from the other traditional commentaries and Talmudic literature - in effect, a taste of learning.
It is also a traditional time for small children to start their formal (sort of formal) Torah studies - they begin to learn the alphabet, for instance).
Some congregations also hold group 'confirmation' (Hebrew school graduation ceremonies) on or about this time.
This year, here, we are going to have a dairy meal (with cheesecake) followed by an adult study session but I doubt if we'll make it to midnight. Maybe!
We are in the 'Counting of the Omer' period, and an omer is a rather like a bushel or a peck: it is a measure of (barley) grain. From Passover (the first day of) we count each day until the fiftieth day (seven weeks and a day) and then it is -
Shavuot (aka Shavuos, aka the Feast of Weeks, aka he Feast/Festival of Vows, aka the Festival of First Fruits - and to the Christians visiting - aka 'Pentecost' which means 'the Fiftieth (day)').
clear? Sure it is.
Shavuot - besides being the biblical 'Festival of First Fruits' is also the traditional anniversary of the Revelation of Torah at Mount Sinai.
Which probably explains why 'Pentecost' is an important CHRISTIAN holiday, since it is billed as the anniversary of the day the apostles got a Revelation in Jerusalem (complete with fire - of course, Sinai had fire AND smoke, but hey) - really, it is an obvious tie in - a new Pentecost with a new Revelation...
anyway.
what do we do then?
We eat a lot of cheesecake....
No, seriously. We eat a lot of cheesecake. Or rather, we eat dairy foods, because, traditionally, at Sinai the Children of Israel got the Law and found out about kosher-ness and therefore went through a purification process for POTS and avoided any meat for I think it was three days. Either that, or a connection to the 'milk and honey' motif - or maybe both.
However, besides the cheesecake, it is customary to a) stay up all night or at least until past midnight (because that's a good thing to do when you are very anxious and expectant, like waiting for Moses to make it down the mountain) and b) do a text study with a bit from Torah, something from Prophets, a selection from the Writings (like Psalms or something) and also from the other traditional commentaries and Talmudic literature - in effect, a taste of learning.
It is also a traditional time for small children to start their formal (sort of formal) Torah studies - they begin to learn the alphabet, for instance).
Some congregations also hold group 'confirmation' (Hebrew school graduation ceremonies) on or about this time.
This year, here, we are going to have a dairy meal (with cheesecake) followed by an adult study session but I doubt if we'll make it to midnight. Maybe!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
-
Fellow Traveler
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:48 pm
Re: Ask about Judaism
So do Jews have a problem with Non Jews entering the synagogues or what?
Re: Ask about Judaism
No not really.
The thing is, Jews/Judaism has no particular history or interest in converting people to Judaism. As far as Jews/Judaism is concerned, non-Jews are just fine as they are, no problem. Non-Jews presumably have their own 'way' or path to being right with God; there's no incentive to invite non-Jews to become Jews - we even admit it is HARD to be a Jew and it is traditional to actually turn people AWAY (at least at first) who come and say they are interested in converting. Non-Jews don't NEED to convert.
That said, as a result, most synagogues aren't really set up to welcome non-Jews - a lot of the service is in Hebrew, mostly it's expected that everyone pretty much knows what is going on, and when, why and where. The service isn't really user-friendly, so to speak.
It's not that non-Jews aren't really WELCOME, it's just that they aren't exactly EXPECTED and nobody is quite sure what they ought to do with them, or say, or what.
So it is certainly OKAY for non-Jews to attend services, but don't expect a big handshake and a request to get your contact information for a follow up visit or something.
Now - it is likely that if a stranger shows up at a synagogue, someone - like an usher - may come up and ask if you are Jewish. This is NOT because they want to screen people, but generally, any visitor who IS Jewish will be offered an 'aliyah' (a kind of honor) mainly because after a while, everybody who is usually there has ALREADY had half a dozen 'aliyah' opportunities and for pete's sake, a NEWBIE! Offer him an aliyah and spread the work - uh, joy. Whatever.
Just say no. It's okay. He isn't trying to trap you or anything. If you aren't Jewish, you don't qualify for an aliyah, that's all.
If you want some help through the service, though, follow up your 'no' IMMEDIATELY with a request for someone to be your 'guide'. The usher can try to hook you up with someone who won't mind showing you where they are in the siddur (prayerbook) and cluing you in to what is going on.
Non Jews SHOULD:
wear a kippah (yarmulke) or other head covering (not MANDATORY, but appreciated). Covering the head is merely a sign of respect and not actually any kind of Jew specific clothing. The Pope wears one, after all.
Non Jews SHOULD NOT:
pick up and put on a tallit (prayer shawl). Those are definitely 'Jews only' wear.
Everyone should stand up when the cabinet at the front (the ark) is opened - it is a sign of respect for the Torah. Nobody will turn their back on the Torah scroll when it is visible and 'out'. People will sit again when the Torah scroll is set down on the reading bench, OR when the Torah cabinet ('the ark') is closed.
It is perfectly all right to get up and walk out during the prayer service - unless the ark is open and the Torah is out. Then you stay until people sit down again.
There's a little book around which covers a lot of things like this, for all sorts of denominations and faiths - it is called 'How to Be A Perfect Stranger' and it is specifically for people who are visiting a different church or a different faith's service.
http://smile.amazon.com/How-Perfect-Str ... t+stranger
The thing is, Jews/Judaism has no particular history or interest in converting people to Judaism. As far as Jews/Judaism is concerned, non-Jews are just fine as they are, no problem. Non-Jews presumably have their own 'way' or path to being right with God; there's no incentive to invite non-Jews to become Jews - we even admit it is HARD to be a Jew and it is traditional to actually turn people AWAY (at least at first) who come and say they are interested in converting. Non-Jews don't NEED to convert.
That said, as a result, most synagogues aren't really set up to welcome non-Jews - a lot of the service is in Hebrew, mostly it's expected that everyone pretty much knows what is going on, and when, why and where. The service isn't really user-friendly, so to speak.
It's not that non-Jews aren't really WELCOME, it's just that they aren't exactly EXPECTED and nobody is quite sure what they ought to do with them, or say, or what.
So it is certainly OKAY for non-Jews to attend services, but don't expect a big handshake and a request to get your contact information for a follow up visit or something.
Now - it is likely that if a stranger shows up at a synagogue, someone - like an usher - may come up and ask if you are Jewish. This is NOT because they want to screen people, but generally, any visitor who IS Jewish will be offered an 'aliyah' (a kind of honor) mainly because after a while, everybody who is usually there has ALREADY had half a dozen 'aliyah' opportunities and for pete's sake, a NEWBIE! Offer him an aliyah and spread the work - uh, joy. Whatever.
Just say no. It's okay. He isn't trying to trap you or anything. If you aren't Jewish, you don't qualify for an aliyah, that's all.
If you want some help through the service, though, follow up your 'no' IMMEDIATELY with a request for someone to be your 'guide'. The usher can try to hook you up with someone who won't mind showing you where they are in the siddur (prayerbook) and cluing you in to what is going on.
Non Jews SHOULD:
wear a kippah (yarmulke) or other head covering (not MANDATORY, but appreciated). Covering the head is merely a sign of respect and not actually any kind of Jew specific clothing. The Pope wears one, after all.
Non Jews SHOULD NOT:
pick up and put on a tallit (prayer shawl). Those are definitely 'Jews only' wear.
Everyone should stand up when the cabinet at the front (the ark) is opened - it is a sign of respect for the Torah. Nobody will turn their back on the Torah scroll when it is visible and 'out'. People will sit again when the Torah scroll is set down on the reading bench, OR when the Torah cabinet ('the ark') is closed.
It is perfectly all right to get up and walk out during the prayer service - unless the ark is open and the Torah is out. Then you stay until people sit down again.
There's a little book around which covers a lot of things like this, for all sorts of denominations and faiths - it is called 'How to Be A Perfect Stranger' and it is specifically for people who are visiting a different church or a different faith's service.
http://smile.amazon.com/How-Perfect-Str ... t+stranger
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
So - what is an aliyah?
The word means 'to go up'. An aliyah can be: moving to Israel, moving to Jerusalem, going up during synagogue services to read from the Torah -- it's 'an honor' to get a synagogue aliyah, and on Saturday morning services there are typically seven people who get an aliyah - the opportunity to go up to the front, touch the Torah scroll, say the blessings before and after the reading (usually a professional does the actual reading, because it's actually a special chant and the text has no vowels, no punctuation, and isn't something everybody can just do).
The implication of the 'going up' is that all those things - moving to Israel, moving to Jerusalem, or reading from the Torah - are all actions that raise holiness to a higher level.
But like I said, with seven people getting one every Shabbat, pretty soon you cycle through everybody in the congregation, so guests are (metaphorically speaking) immediately grabbed, in hopes that they might be both qualified and willing - plus, of course, it is a kind of 'hello meet the crowd'.
The word means 'to go up'. An aliyah can be: moving to Israel, moving to Jerusalem, going up during synagogue services to read from the Torah -- it's 'an honor' to get a synagogue aliyah, and on Saturday morning services there are typically seven people who get an aliyah - the opportunity to go up to the front, touch the Torah scroll, say the blessings before and after the reading (usually a professional does the actual reading, because it's actually a special chant and the text has no vowels, no punctuation, and isn't something everybody can just do).
The implication of the 'going up' is that all those things - moving to Israel, moving to Jerusalem, or reading from the Torah - are all actions that raise holiness to a higher level.
But like I said, with seven people getting one every Shabbat, pretty soon you cycle through everybody in the congregation, so guests are (metaphorically speaking) immediately grabbed, in hopes that they might be both qualified and willing - plus, of course, it is a kind of 'hello meet the crowd'.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.