Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

Characteristics of a “God” humans created.
1 Such a God would have human form & gender
2 Such a God would have human emotions
3 Such a God would have characterizations that would make humans fear it.
4 Such a God would make laws, rules, and commands designed to control humans
5 Such a God would offer rewards for being obedient to its laws, rules, and command.
6 Such a God would punish disobedience for failing to keep its laws, rules, & commands.
7 Humans would create a religion to worship this God.

If there is such a thing as a “God” or at least something humans could possibly consider to be a God, I think science has already discovered it.

Many ancient cultures had creation stories, but the one that believed life came out of a primordial soup is pretty darn close to what science says actually occurred.

Science knows what elements are necessary to create life and earth is the only place we know of, as of now anyway, that has all of the necessary elements for life to form, reproduce, and evolve. Are all of these necessary elements an accident (probably so) but for arguments sake let’s say they aren’t. Let’s say there is “something” in our universe that I will call, for lack of a better description, a creative force or energy.

Science knows DNA is the source of life. I could accept identifying DNA as a form of “Intelligent Design”. Think about it. Every living thing is the product of DNA. Trees, Birds, Dogs, Cats, and even humans are the product of DNA. Every living thing is the product of DNA.

Just think about how brilliant of an engineering feat DNA is. It creates life, this life is self replicating, and this life form changes and adapts to ensure its survival. Weaker species die out and go extinct, but stronger species get stronger, wiser, and continue to reproduce better clones of the original.

Whatever is responsible for this amazing feat of engineering I can call “God.” But this “God” does not require worship; IT doesn’t intervene in ITs creation, IT doesn’t punish or reward ITS creations. IT simply exists and continues to create. IT never stops creating new life.

If I had to put a name for those that accept this “Creative Force” as existing, I would identify them as Panendeists. And I am comfortable accepting that label for myself. Whatever this creative force is, I think it meets all the criteria for identifying it as "God" at least from a human perspective. It just doesn't do the things humans want or expect a God to do.

After more study & research into this matter I've decided Deism isn't a viable option. The evidence still points to agnostic/atheist as the more logical and rational option.

Deism is something I explored after I rejected Christianity. It's advertised as a logical & rational approach to God. In a nut shell Deists accept that God exists and is the creator of all things. Some refer to Deism as God without the Dogma.

The old idea of Deism embracing the watchmaker God has been mostly abandoned by today's Deist. The watchmaker God was the belief that God created the universe and then moved on. Most present day Deists reject that belief now.

A Deist is free to believe whatever they want about God. And since that is so it's difficult to pin down what Deists believe. Generally they belief God exists and is the creator of all that there is. The idea that God and the Universe is one and the same thing is a popular belief among Deists. It is also a popular belief among Deists to see God as not directly intervening in creation.

Many Deists believe God created so that creation reproduces and evolves on it's own, so there is no need for God to intervene or fix anything, because God's creation was perfect. Therefore, there is no need for prayer, or worship, or the things needed for worship, like buildings, and money. Deism is usually referred to as a religion but it fails to meet the requirements generally associated with a religion. It seems to me Deism is more like a mindset than a religion.

Deist seem to take the general attitude that God created, we have life and we need to enjoy and appreciate our brief moment in the Sun for as long as we have life. Deists generally to not recognize the concept of sin, repentance, or forgiveness. As far as most Deist go they do not believe those concept exists. Deists generally do believe that living by the Golden Rule is a good philosophy and they tend to endorse that and follow that code.

I haven't declared myself to be a Deist, but it is the only "religious" option that has some appeal to me.

Cootie Brown wrote:Deism is something I explored after I rejected Christianity. It's advertised as a logical & rational approach to God. In a nut shell Deists accept that God exists and is the creator of all things. Some refer to Deism as God without the Dogma.

The old idea of Deism embracing the watchmaker God has been mostly abandoned by today's Deist. The watchmaker God was the belief that God created the universe and then moved on. Most present day Deists reject that belief now.

A Deist is free to believe whatever they want about God. And since that is so it's difficult to pin down what Deists believe. Generally they belief God exists and is the creator of all that there is. The idea that God and the Universe is one and the same thing is a popular belief among Deists. It is also a popular belief among Deists to see God as not directly intervening in creation.

Many Deists believe God created so that creation reproduces and evolves on it's own, so there is no need for God to intervene or fix anything, because God's creation was perfect. Therefore, there is no need for prayer, or worship, or the things needed for worship, like buildings, and money. Deism is usually referred to as a religion but it fails to meet the requirements generally associated with a religion. It seems to me Deism is more like a mindset than a religion.

Deist seem to take the general attitude that God created, we have life and we need to enjoy and appreciate our brief moment in the Sun for as long as we have life. Deists generally to not recognize the concept of sin, repentance, or forgiveness. As far as most Deist go they do not believe those concept exists. Deists generally do believe that living by the Golden Rule is a good philosophy and they tend to endorse that and follow that code.

I haven't declared myself to be a Deist, but it is the only "religious" option that has some appeal to me.

Did you just put some air back in the room?

gordie91 wrote:

Cootie Brown wrote:Deism is something I explored after I rejected Christianity. It's advertised as a logical & rational approach to God. In a nut shell Deists accept that God exists and is the creator of all things. Some refer to Deism as God without the Dogma.

The old idea of Deism embracing the watchmaker God has been mostly abandoned by today's Deist. The watchmaker God was the belief that God created the universe and then moved on. Most present day Deists reject that belief now.

A Deist is free to believe whatever they want about God. And since that is so it's difficult to pin down what Deists believe. Generally they belief God exists and is the creator of all that there is. The idea that God and the Universe is one and the same thing is a popular belief among Deists. It is also a popular belief among Deists to see God as not directly intervening in creation.

Many Deists believe God created so that creation reproduces and evolves on it's own, so there is no need for God to intervene or fix anything, because God's creation was perfect. Therefore, there is no need for prayer, or worship, or the things needed for worship, like buildings, and money. Deism is usually referred to as a religion but it fails to meet the requirements generally associated with a religion. It seems to me Deism is more like a mindset than a religion.

Deist seem to take the general attitude that God created, we have life and we need to enjoy and appreciate our brief moment in the Sun for as long as we have life. Deists generally to not recognize the concept of sin, repentance, or forgiveness. As far as most Deist go they do not believe those concept exists. Deists generally do believe that living by the Golden Rule is a good philosophy and they tend to endorse that and follow that code.

I haven't declared myself to be a Deist, but it is the only "religious" option that has some appeal to me.

Did you just put some air back in the room?

Are you asking if I just passed gas?

No cootie, your comments about deism sounded like you were making concessions and not "sucking the air out of the room" by being all hardline atheist and all . I was being a smart donkey by referencing the comments in a thread about you but not about you.

But if you feel the need, by all means go ahead, who is going to know?

gordie91 wrote:No cootie, your comments about deism sounded like you were making concessions and not "sucking the air out of the room" by being all hardline atheist and all . I was being a smart donkey by referencing the comments in a thread about you but not about you.

But if you feel the need, by all means go ahead, who is going to know?

I go where the evidence takes me. Scientific theory for how life began is rational, logical, and scientifically sound. That, however, does not eliminate the possibility of a creator's hand in the process. The fact that life replicates and evolves on it's own is so amazing one has to wonder if such a thing could be an accident. That, at least for me, is the strongest argument I can identify with for their being a creator.

That is a separate issue from religion and intervening Deities and supernatural realms actually existing. The evidence is conclusive, at least in my mind, those are all human creations.

After more study and research I have to reject a creator/God and or Deism as a viable option. The evidence doesn't support that option. Sorry to suck the air out of the room again.

Cootie Brown wrote:

gordie91 wrote:

Cootie Brown wrote:Deism is something I explored after I rejected Christianity. It's advertised as a logical & rational approach to God. In a nut shell Deists accept that God exists and is the creator of all things. Some refer to Deism as God without the Dogma.

The old idea of Deism embracing the watchmaker God has been mostly abandoned by today's Deist. The watchmaker God was the belief that God created the universe and then moved on. Most present day Deists reject that belief now.

A Deist is free to believe whatever they want about God. And since that is so it's difficult to pin down what Deists believe. Generally they belief God exists and is the creator of all that there is. The idea that God and the Universe is one and the same thing is a popular belief among Deists. It is also a popular belief among Deists to see God as not directly intervening in creation.

Many Deists believe God created so that creation reproduces and evolves on it's own, so there is no need for God to intervene or fix anything, because God's creation was perfect. Therefore, there is no need for prayer, or worship, or the things needed for worship, like buildings, and money. Deism is usually referred to as a religion but it fails to meet the requirements generally associated with a religion. It seems to me Deism is more like a mindset than a religion.

Deist seem to take the general attitude that God created, we have life and we need to enjoy and appreciate our brief moment in the Sun for as long as we have life. Deists generally to not recognize the concept of sin, repentance, or forgiveness. As far as most Deist go they do not believe those concept exists. Deists generally do believe that living by the Golden Rule is a good philosophy and they tend to endorse that and follow that code.

I haven't declared myself to be a Deist, but it is the only "religious" option that has some appeal to me.

Did you just put some air back in the room?

Are you asking if I just passed gas?

You two mind your manners. Some of us are eating.

Well, after watching a number of videos, hosted by theoretical physicists, on a number of topics related to the universe and cosmology I'm remembering why I ultimately rejected Deism the first time I examined it.

There is just no logical or rational reason to believe in a creator/God, much less a personal God. But I'm glad I took another look at it. I wanted to make sure I wasn't allowing my emotions to override the evidence, and as it turns out I was.

I'm new here.

I was a "3 times a week" CoC christian, raised that way, and lived it about 30 years. Around 2010 I started to really question things and really just started getting a bit bored with the CoC way. Not only did I feel like I was going through the motions but I really started studying things instead of just being spoonfed everything and things weren't adding up to me.

Around 2015 I finally left my last CoC for good and I haven't really been back to any. I told my family I was "visiting around" and even said I was going to some "liberal" CoCs simply because they didn't know anyone there and wouldn't know if I actually went or not. But I haven't been to a church service in over 4 years.

All that to say after I seriously studied my beliefs and all, I've come to the conclusion that I consider myself an atheist. I realize how the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" are used but I generally find "agnostic" kind of needless; I mean technically everyone is agnostic because no one actually KNOWS if God is real or not. I have seen no evidence to convince me there is a god, and certainly not one like the typical Evangelical Christian worships. And to be honest I'm pretty much at the point that I really don't care if there is any kind of god or not. If there is one, it has very little to do with me. It's not a personal god, it's not a savior, and I doubt it cares how I act.

FreedomFromCoC wrote:I'm new here.

I was a "3 times a week" CoC christian, raised that way, and lived it about 30 years. Around 2010 I started to really question things and really just started getting a bit bored with the CoC way. Not only did I feel like I was going through the motions but I really started studying things instead of just being spoonfed everything and things weren't adding up to me.

Around 2015 I finally left my last CoC for good and I haven't really been back to any. I told my family I was "visiting around" and even said I was going to some "liberal" CoCs simply because they didn't know anyone there and wouldn't know if I actually went or not. But I haven't been to a church service in over 4 years.

All that to say after I seriously studied my beliefs and all, I've come to the conclusion that I consider myself an atheist. I realize how the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" are used but I generally find "agnostic" kind of needless; I mean technically everyone is agnostic because no one actually KNOWS if God is real or not. I have seen no evidence to convince me there is a god, and certainly not one like the typical Evangelical Christian worships. And to be honest I'm pretty much at the point that I really don't care if there is any kind of god or not. If there is one, it has very little to do with me. It's not a personal god, it's not a savior, and I doubt it cares how I act.

Welcome to the board, Freedom!! And thanks for sharing your views with us.