Fun or serious topics, including politics, current events and questions about the site. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only. That means doing our best to recognize and support the needs and feelings of others. To engage in respectful discussion with others who have a differing viewpoint, use "Coffee House".
KLP wrote:Ivy, please go start your own Tea Cup to push for continued deficit spending, increasing the national debt, pushing the cost of on to future generations, with the continued promise of entitlements to a growing number of folks. I don't know what decisions you have made or things that have happened to you in this life but it seems your are really depending on the government and tax payers to provide a large portion of your future. And I am OK with thinking that way but I cannot be as supportive as perhaps you require. So again, nicely, please go start your own Thread so you can push for continued and increasing govt spending.
Why would you try to run me off the thread? I have asked respectfully for clarification, and have supported you where I can.
I do agree with Agri that we have worked for many years and are now "entitled" to SS and Medicare benefits. I have contributed my share throughout my lifetime to care for the elderly by contributing to those programs. That's the way it works.
So, feeling as you do toward SS and Medicare, will you be declining those benefits when your time comes? I do think it might help the program if everyone who is opposed to it declines these benefits when it is their turn to receive them.
You guys really don't get the concept of support and agreement only and of course I don't expect rules to be enforced.
SSA has several aspects but it is "insurance" even though many people think of it as a defined investment retirement program. In regards the retirement aspect, there is a trend for people to get more back as compared to what they put in. And this is without regard to need. So that is one reason SS is projected to have financial "difficulties"...because if people just got out of it what they put in, then of course there could be no problem.
Now...back to the support and agreement please or start a new thread for a discussion of continued deficit spending, wealth transfers, and burdening the grandchildren.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
KLP wrote:You guys really don't get the concept of support and agreement only and of course I don't expect rules to be enforced.
SSA has several aspects but it is "insurance" even though many people think of it as a defined investment retirement program. In regards the retirement aspect, there is a trend for people to get more back as compared to what they put in. And this is without regard to need. So that is one reason SS is projected to have financial "difficulties"...because if people just got out of it what they put in, then of course there could be no problem.
Now...back to the support and agreement please or start a new thread for a discussion of continued deficit spending, wealth transfers, and burdening the grandchildren.
You still evaded my question, so I can only assume that when it's your turn for SS and Medicare you'll be turning your back on your principles. It's all fun and games until YOU'RE the grandpa.
Let us not forget that the biggest reason SS and medicare is in trouble is because Congress raided the surplus in the past and replaced the funds with IOU's to help balance the budget. To the tune of 2.6 trillion dollars. See the link below for a good explanation of what has happened and why there are no funds in the SS trust fund.
tarheel wrote:Let us not forget that the biggest reason SS and medicare is in trouble is because Congress raided the surplus in the past and replaced the funds with IOU's to help balance the budget. To the tune of 2.6 trillion dollars. See the link below for a good explanation of what has happened and why there are no funds in the SS trust fund.
So is any one here denying that this "insurance" program is now a defined entitlement where the majority of folks get back more than they put in. That was long ago changed from an 'insurance" program to a defacto retirement pension program is the main reason there I trouble now.
The stuff about the govt using the cash and being on the hook is a red herring distraction. The US govt is good for it, so the "IOU" is good. If not then, that means default in the future and getting the cash essentially meant forestalling the default. Putting the money to use rather than supposedly having it sitting in a "lock box" is just good stewardship.
Increasing the people in the dole along with the increased baby boomer retirees with more lives of living after retirement and fewer workers paying in is what is biggest problem.
Does it stink? Yes.
Were promises made that cannot and never could be kept? Yes. Same for all the state funded pensions.
Continually saying you just want what you put in is silly and facile....people expect much more than they put in
Continually saying you want what is "right" is equally silly and facile given the debt and the burden on future generations.
The government give aways while running deficits is something that obviously cannot be sustained. Yes, not all SSA is a give away.
In way or other, entitlements will eventually be reduced...be it collapse or be it reductions in spending and the ability to borrow and print money.
But sure, keep telling yourselves the same old lies that everyone can keep getting more and more and everything is fine and that is right.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
KLP wrote:But sure, keep telling yourselves the same old lies that everyone can keep getting more and more and everything is fine and that is right.
I do agree with you that everything is not "fine", and I am very concerned about the SS and Medicare programs. I don't know exactly where we
go from here.
Ivy...since you seem to want to make it personal and discuss the particular case of me (one person) instead of the concept. Here ya go.....Frankly I am not sure I will long enough to draw SSA...probably not more than a few years at most. And yes I have been at or above the annual max for many years. So don't worry about me somehow getting back everything I am putting in...just not going to happen.
What I have seen is that wealthy folks who don't need Soc Sec check are still getting it. And getting hip replacements at 90yrs old. The benefits being paid out are without regard to need or reasonableness. But that has been the promise but it is insane and goes against the entire notion of "insurance". Just like people confusing medical insurance with prepaid universal medical services. Insurance fundamentally is a strategy to share and spread risk with many contributing and relatively few consuming the benefits. The idea isn't to "get back what I paid in". So because you had car and home insurance for years is no basis that they eventually have to pay back all your premiums? But yes politicians and the public have both agreed that everything will be fine anyway if everyone has a defined and guaranteed benefit regardless of need.
BTW, Tarh has already posted how and why entitlements will be cut on another thread. Raising the retirement age going forward for younger workers is one obvious way. This really isn't new territory I am covering here. But sure demonize me as the bad guy all you want Ivy if it makes you feel better. But it does not change the math.
I would prefer a soft landing rather then a collapse, so yes, I would be pleased if entitlements start the be reigned in....why does being informed and willing to discuss hard choices always make me the bad guy on this site?
So again please, this is a support and agreement forum. I am trying my best and I am asking you guys to at least pretend to follow the rules of this site even if the Mods do not enforce them uniformly.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
KLP wrote:Frankly I am not sure I will long enough to draw SSA...probably not more than a few years at most.
Could you please fill in the missing word? Are you saying "live long enough"?
why does being informed and willing to discuss hard choices always make me the bad guy on this site?
I guess it's just your cross to bear. If you're going to be informed and willing to discuss hard choices....a voice crying in the wilderness...you have to be prepared
to be the bad guy. Why? Because life isn't fair.
