The Mass Shooting Epidemic...how do we stop it?

[Cootie Brown]

The mindset of some folks is puzzling. People around the country may or may not have heard about the recent prison escape in West Tennessee. The prisoner in question was scheduled for release in six years. He was considered to be non-violent and was assigned work details outside the compound.

Prison employees have homes provided for them in this area. He attacked a long time female prison official. He raped her and then murdered her. He would have been a free man in six years now he’s facing the death penalty or life without parole.

He would be a free man in six years and he had obtained non violent work status while serving the remainder of his sentence. Why would he do something as stupid as he did?

Why would anyone get a gun and start shooting innocent people that they often don’t even know? Why don’t they think about the consequences before they pull the trigger? What do they think they are going to accomplish?

[zeek]

Stop pissing off the people who are likely to do mass shootings. I am going to do something very unpopular and say that a lot of times these people have legitimate grievances. I am not saying they should have gone and shot up folks but lots of times especially workplace shootings the victims did something they probably shouldn't have. Again let it be understood BH is not saying go shoot up places. I am saying don't do stuff that provokes it.

I have been in a situation twice where I or fellow students or workers were in danger from violence. One was at school in eighth grade. A boy came to school with a gun and shot out some windows. I heard he was mad because a much larger boy raped him or tried to rape him and school did nothing. I do know that the person who was the suspect rapist did serve time for rape later after graduating high school

Concerning the workplace violence incident. the police stopped the guy before he came back after getting fired to shoot the boss. His wife called them to stop him. The guy was fired and the boss handled it cruelly. He mocked the man and even cursed at him. I would not have felt sorry for that boss if the guy had got him. He was arrogant and cruel and enjoyed hurting folks.

I agree with you B.H. . In at least some cases, society does bear some responsibility for these acts of violence. Most of the time these shooters are persons whom society has marginalized and isolated. It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half century that bullying either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

[Ivy]

It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half ceng either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I agree with you, zeek. That is part of the solution. However, people with mental illness also tend to have distorted perceptions, so can misunderstand no matter what the intent.

[B.H.]

It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half ceng either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I agree with you, zeek. That is part of the solution. However, people with mental illness also tend to have distorted perceptions, so can misunderstand no matter what the intent.

And that also goes back to you and me and everyone else. Why do we have so much mental illness in this country. I think it is the way our society and culture is.

[Ivy]

It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half ceng either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I agree with you, zeek. That is part of the solution. However, people with mental illness also tend to have distorted perceptions, so can misunderstand no matter what the intent.

And that also goes back to you and me and everyone else. Why do we have so much mental illness in this country. I think it is the way our society and culture is.

It sure seems that way, BH. Here are some interesting articles about the issues:

h**ps://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-by-the-numbers

h**ps://www.anxietycentre.com/FAQ/why-is-mental ... rise.shtml

h**ps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4059492

[Sean]

So as I say...good luck in putting the genie back in the bottle.

We have to try, though. Enough is enough, and our kids are watching to see if anyone is going to do anything.

You're right, we can't go back to the 1950s and the Ozzie / Harriet world. But, remember people were smoking like chimneys back then.
The genie went back into the bottle with tobacco; I think it can be done with the semi-automatic weapons. It seems to me that every idea that is floated is shot down by the NRA lobby. it's complicated.

The genie isn't the weapon. Again, the weapon is a symptom, not the cause. The genie is the destruction of culture, 2 parent families, institutions, religion, and community that leads to the depression, rage, and hopelessness. These young men feel hopeless and lack power, importance, and significance and out of this brew they feel rage and a desire to want to do something "awesome", to be significant, to lash out at a system that has crushed them.

But religion, marriage, entry level jobs that lead to career and economic mobility, family, self-reliance, dignity that comes from independence and self-sufficiency...these things are greatly diminished. Forget ever restoring these cultural features as long as it is taboo and ridicule to even mention them.

Until then the focus will be on the weapon, not the cultural choices that created the desire to go on a murder rampage.

[zeek]

So as I say...good luck in putting the genie back in the bottle.

We have to try, though. Enough is enough, and our kids are watching to see if anyone is going to do anything.

You're right, we can't go back to the 1950s and the Ozzie / Harriet world. But, remember people were smoking like chimneys back then.
The genie went back into the bottle with tobacco; I think it can be done with the semi-automatic weapons. It seems to me that every idea that is floated is shot down by the NRA lobby. it's complicated.

The genie isn't the weapon. Again, the weapon is a symptom, not the cause. The genie is the destruction of culture, 2 parent families, institutions, religion, and community that leads to the depression, rage, and hopelessness. These young men feel hopeless and lack power, importance, and significance and out of this brew they feel rage and a desire to want to do something "awesome", to be significant, to lash out at a system that has crushed them.

But religion, marriage, entry level jobs that lead to career and economic mobility, family, self-reliance, dignity that comes from independence and self-sufficiency...these things are greatly diminished. Forget ever restoring these cultural features as long as it is taboo and ridicule to even mention them.

Until then the focus will be on the weapon, not the cultural choices that created the desire to go on a murder rampage.

Sean, I don't disagree with your assessment of the probable root cause of the violence. However, it seems, to me, that limiting access to the most efficient and effective means to achieve maximum carnage would be a good thing, while we work on the societal issues that drive the problem. I know people misuse trucks, airplanes and even fuel and fertilizer to inflict mass carnage; the difference is that those things are genuine necessities for our society to function. Banning trucks, airplanes, fuel and fertilizer simply isn't a viable option. If it were, you would hear calls for them to be banned similar to the calls to ban semi-automatic weapons. While we can not completely eliminate the risk; we can work to manage risk to it's lowest probability. Limiting access to high capacity rapid fire weapons would be one way to help manage that risk.

[Ivy]

Sean, I don't disagree with your assessment of the probable root cause of the violence. However, it seems, to me, that limiting access to the most efficient and effective means to achieve maximum carnage would be a good thing, while we work on the societal issues that drive the problem. I know people misuse trucks, airplanes and even fuel and fertilizer to inflict mass carnage; the difference is that those things are genuine necessities for our society to function. Banning trucks, airplanes, fuel and fertilizer simply isn't a viable option. If it were, you would hear calls for them to be banned similar to the calls to ban semi-automatic weapons. While we can not completely eliminate the risk; we can work to manage risk to it's lowest probability. Limiting access to high capacity rapid fire weapons would be one way to help manage that risk.

A most reasonable and well articulated view, zeek. Some things that the disturbed and violent use to kill are necessary to our day to day functioning; some are not. The semi-automatic weapons and related paraphernalia are not necessary. We have to figure out as many ways as possible to help manage the risk while we address our struggles as a society.

[Sean]

We already do limit access to the "most efficient and effective means to achieve maximum carnage". Machines guns have strict restrictions as do grenades and missiles. And that is a good thing. Flying someone else's airplane into someone else's skyscraper is also pretty efficient and effective. Pressure cookers are pretty inexpensive and effective. But each additional "good thing" justifies yet another "good thing" that is declared to be "reasonable". Remember when it was the reasonable thing to ban the "bump stock"? Mean while there is zero effort and work on the root causes or restoring a culture and society that values life and purpose.

[Ivy]

We already do limit access to the "most efficient and effective means to achieve maximum carnage". Machines guns have strict restrictions as do grenades and missiles. And that is a good thing. Flying someone else's airplane into someone else's skyscraper is also pretty efficient and effective. Pressure cookers are pretty inexpensive and effective. But each additional "good thing" justifies yet another "good thing" that is declared to be "reasonable". Remember when it was the reasonable thing to ban the "bump stock"? Mean while there is zero effort and work on the root causes or restoring a culture and society that values life and purpose.

I don't agree with you that "zero effort" is being made on those issues. We do value life and purpose as a society, but some are falling through the cracks, and that is being addressed in various ways.

We have to start somewhere, Sean. We don't need semi-automatic weapons. You don't need them, I don't need them. No one needs them except for the appropriate public servants (law enforcement, military, etc). As zeek said, we have to manage risk while work is being done to address cultural problems.