Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

B.H. wrote:Stop pissing off the people who are likely to do mass shootings. I am going to do something very unpopular and say that a lot of times these people have legitimate grievances. I am not saying they should have gone and shot up folks but lots of times especially workplace shootings the victims did something they probably shouldn't have. Again let it be understood BH is not saying go shoot up places. I am saying don't do stuff that provokes it.

I have been in a situation twice where I or fellow students or workers were in danger from violence. One was at school in eighth grade. A boy came to school with a gun and shot out some windows. I heard he was mad because a much larger boy raped him or tried to rape him and school did nothing. I do know that the person who was the suspect rapist did serve time for rape later after graduating high school

Concerning the workplace violence incident. the police stopped the guy before he came back after getting fired to shoot the boss. His wife called them to stop him. The guy was fired and the boss handled it cruelly. He mocked the man and even cursed at him. I would not have felt sorry for that boss if the guy had got him. He was arrogant and cruel and enjoyed hurting folks.

zeek wrote: It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half ceng either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

Ivy wrote:

zeek wrote: It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half ceng either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I agree with you, zeek. That is part of the solution. However, people with mental illness also tend to have distorted perceptions, so can misunderstand no matter what the intent.

B.H. wrote:

Ivy wrote:

zeek wrote: It is amazing, to me, given the history and many, many, unfortunate experiences our nation has had for the last half ceng either at school or in the workplace is still a thing. There is no way to tell how unstable a person really is and who may or may not go off the deep end and shoot the place up so the safe bet is to treat everyone with respect and dignity.

I agree with you, zeek. That is part of the solution. However, people with mental illness also tend to have distorted perceptions, so can misunderstand no matter what the intent.

And that also goes back to you and me and everyone else. Why do we have so much mental illness in this country. I think it is the way our society and culture is.

Ivy wrote:

Sean wrote: So as I say...good luck in putting the genie back in the bottle.

We have to try, though. Enough is enough, and our kids are watching to see if anyone is going to do anything.

You're right, we can't go back to the 1950s and the Ozzie / Harriet world. But, remember people were smoking like chimneys back then.
The genie went back into the bottle with tobacco; I think it can be done with the semi-automatic weapons. It seems to me that every idea that is floated is shot down by the NRA lobby. it's complicated.

Sean wrote:

Ivy wrote:

Sean wrote: So as I say...good luck in putting the genie back in the bottle.

We have to try, though. Enough is enough, and our kids are watching to see if anyone is going to do anything.

You're right, we can't go back to the 1950s and the Ozzie / Harriet world. But, remember people were smoking like chimneys back then.
The genie went back into the bottle with tobacco; I think it can be done with the semi-automatic weapons. It seems to me that every idea that is floated is shot down by the NRA lobby. it's complicated.

The genie isn't the weapon. Again, the weapon is a symptom, not the cause. The genie is the destruction of culture, 2 parent families, institutions, religion, and community that leads to the depression, rage, and hopelessness. These young men feel hopeless and lack power, importance, and significance and out of this brew they feel rage and a desire to want to do something "awesome", to be significant, to lash out at a system that has crushed them.

But religion, marriage, entry level jobs that lead to career and economic mobility, family, self-reliance, dignity that comes from independence and self-sufficiency...these things are greatly diminished. Forget ever restoring these cultural features as long as it is taboo and ridicule to even mention them.

Until then the focus will be on the weapon, not the cultural choices that created the desire to go on a murder rampage.

zeek wrote:Sean, I don't disagree with your assessment of the probable root cause of the violence. However, it seems, to me, that limiting access to the most efficient and effective means to achieve maximum carnage would be a good thing, while we work on the societal issues that drive the problem. I know people misuse trucks, airplanes and even fuel and fertilizer to inflict mass carnage; the difference is that those things are genuine necessities for our society to function. Banning trucks, airplanes, fuel and fertilizer simply isn't a viable option. If it were, you would hear calls for them to be banned similar to the calls to ban semi-automatic weapons. While we can not completely eliminate the risk; we can work to manage risk to it's lowest probability. Limiting access to high capacity rapid fire weapons would be one way to help manage that risk.

Sean wrote:We already do limit access to the "most efficient and effective means to achieve maximum carnage". Machines guns have strict restrictions as do grenades and missiles. And that is a good thing. Flying someone else's airplane into someone else's skyscraper is also pretty efficient and effective. Pressure cookers are pretty inexpensive and effective. But each additional "good thing" justifies yet another "good thing" that is declared to be "reasonable". Remember when it was the reasonable thing to ban the "bump stock"? Mean while there is zero effort and work on the root causes or restoring a culture and society that values life and purpose.