I was here several years ago, and posted a fair amount. It's been awhile. I don't even remember my old user name. It may have been "freeman2be" or "jcfreedom" or something like that, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I'm back.
My wife and I left the CoC many years ago - about 20 or so I guess. Recently, I have become what is referred to as "Dechurched" or one of the "Dones". I still love God and Jesus and have my faith in Him, believe in the Holy Spirit - but I finally realized that "church" is just not for me. At least not as we know it. For me, there's not a hill of beans of difference in Baptist, Assemblies Of God, CoC, Catholic, Lutheran, mega-church, traditional (with hymn, suits, and ties), or modern (with praise/worship bands and blue jeans), etc. I'm really looking for a total paradigm shift in how we do church, how church "is". I want to reconsider the whole thing above the foundation (for me, that foundation is still Jesus the Christ). But I'm willing to reconsider most all of the rest of it. For example - Why are Christian churches (most all of them regardless of style or denomination) - why are they sermon-centric? Even those that have now started doing "small-groups" or "life-groups" or whatever - even these small groups are expository-Bible-study-centric. Do we have to meet on Sundays? Weekly? In person (could we meet by Skype or web-conference, etc). Do we have to sing and have music? If so, do we have to do that every week? Can we observe the Passover instead of communion? And the list goes on.
Hello - Again
Re: Hello - Again
I guess I forgot something, so I'll reply to my own post. Anyway, I've recently been thinking a lot about this "dechurched" thing (or some call us "The Dones"). I searched the web for a support group and discussing forum for the dechurched and couldn't find anything. But I remembered this group. I've been "done" with the CoC for a long time, and I'm now done with traditional church. It was actually hard for me to type that. Anyway, this group may not be exactly what I was looking for, but I'm sure that I can find some good discussion and support here.
Re: Hello - Again
Hi and welcome back. As for your question - it depends on what you think church is, and what you think church is 'for', I suppose.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Hello - Again
Let me go a little further with this. If any of you find this interesting at all, I would really appreciate some good discussion on this topic. I guess it's kind of my "new path".
I recently joined a "coaching" group. The idea is based on Napolean Hill's "mastermind group" from his book "Think and Grow Rich" (I need to actually read that book I guess). Anyway, this coaching group is based on coaching people in my particular entrapranuerial profession/business. The founder is a very successful businessman. And he's also a solid Christian. Anyway, this man became very successful in this particular area of business, and he was also teaching/coaching others on how to do this business. He made a lot of money but got to the point that his life sucked - too much stress, too many hours working, etc. So he changed his coaching model. He still coaches the nuts and bolts of the business, but he focuses on "life coaching", with the business being secondary.
I recently joined one of his groups. And, for me, it provides many of the things that I have always been missing in "church". I don't have the time to list all of the book/chapter/verse at the moment, but all of these things are Biblical principles. Such as:
1. Community/fellowship
2. Sharing one another's burdens
3. Praying for one another
4. Support and encouragement
5. Vision
6. Planning
7. Action
8. Improvement
9. Accountability (I know, this may throw up a red flag to some of you)
10. Older teaching the younger (or in this case, the more experienced teaching the less experienced)
11. And I'll probably think of more later and may come back and edit this.
We also have the opportunity in these groups to participate in what he refers to as a "faith call" (since we are a small group of people located all around the US, much of our stuff together is done by conference calls, group emails, (and one-one-one calls and emails) and webinars. (see, there's what I'm talking about with revisiting the "structure" of church and how we do it). Anyway, the faith call is sort of like a sermon I guess, where our lead coach discusses a Biblical topic, but it's much more interactive and responsive than a tradition church sermon. There are also many other phone calls available where people discuss various topics - some are business related, some are "life" related. We also have the opportunity to give financially and to go on mission trips together if we choose to (these mission trips are typically more service oriented). And we all meet together quarterly (again, we are scattered all around the US). And everything is voluntary. No one has to participate in any of the calls or the mission trips or giving.
Anyway, so far, I have made improvements in my own life in the following areas. Again, all (or most of them anyway) are things that could or should be happening in any given church. Biblical stuff. Christian growth kind of stuff.
1. Dealing with a difficult situation in my family and our marriage.
2. Supporting and helping my wife more as she deals with that difficult situation - serving her.
3. Improving my health (eating better, exercising more, losing weight) - my body is a temple.
4. Spending more time with my daughter and trying to improve our relationship.
5. Serving others (I have done several phone calls with other members of the group to help them in their businesses).
6. Spiritual - my personal coach is also a Christian and he is helping me to deal with an addiction that I need to overcome.
7. And probably others that I will think of later.
I recently joined a "coaching" group. The idea is based on Napolean Hill's "mastermind group" from his book "Think and Grow Rich" (I need to actually read that book I guess). Anyway, this coaching group is based on coaching people in my particular entrapranuerial profession/business. The founder is a very successful businessman. And he's also a solid Christian. Anyway, this man became very successful in this particular area of business, and he was also teaching/coaching others on how to do this business. He made a lot of money but got to the point that his life sucked - too much stress, too many hours working, etc. So he changed his coaching model. He still coaches the nuts and bolts of the business, but he focuses on "life coaching", with the business being secondary.
I recently joined one of his groups. And, for me, it provides many of the things that I have always been missing in "church". I don't have the time to list all of the book/chapter/verse at the moment, but all of these things are Biblical principles. Such as:
1. Community/fellowship
2. Sharing one another's burdens
3. Praying for one another
4. Support and encouragement
5. Vision
6. Planning
7. Action
8. Improvement
9. Accountability (I know, this may throw up a red flag to some of you)
10. Older teaching the younger (or in this case, the more experienced teaching the less experienced)
11. And I'll probably think of more later and may come back and edit this.
We also have the opportunity in these groups to participate in what he refers to as a "faith call" (since we are a small group of people located all around the US, much of our stuff together is done by conference calls, group emails, (and one-one-one calls and emails) and webinars. (see, there's what I'm talking about with revisiting the "structure" of church and how we do it). Anyway, the faith call is sort of like a sermon I guess, where our lead coach discusses a Biblical topic, but it's much more interactive and responsive than a tradition church sermon. There are also many other phone calls available where people discuss various topics - some are business related, some are "life" related. We also have the opportunity to give financially and to go on mission trips together if we choose to (these mission trips are typically more service oriented). And we all meet together quarterly (again, we are scattered all around the US). And everything is voluntary. No one has to participate in any of the calls or the mission trips or giving.
Anyway, so far, I have made improvements in my own life in the following areas. Again, all (or most of them anyway) are things that could or should be happening in any given church. Biblical stuff. Christian growth kind of stuff.
1. Dealing with a difficult situation in my family and our marriage.
2. Supporting and helping my wife more as she deals with that difficult situation - serving her.
3. Improving my health (eating better, exercising more, losing weight) - my body is a temple.
4. Spending more time with my daughter and trying to improve our relationship.
5. Serving others (I have done several phone calls with other members of the group to help them in their businesses).
6. Spiritual - my personal coach is also a Christian and he is helping me to deal with an addiction that I need to overcome.
7. And probably others that I will think of later.
Re: Hello - Again
They are also things typically found in most any kind of community/group setting, religious or secular (or at least could - and in some cases, should - be there).
However, you may want to take that over to 'New Paths' or perhaps to the Coffee Shop for further discussion - these welcome threads are closed after a week or so - this area is primarily for introductions.
However, you may want to take that over to 'New Paths' or perhaps to the Coffee Shop for further discussion - these welcome threads are closed after a week or so - this area is primarily for introductions.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Hello - Again
Oh- but actually I read something recently that might be applicable: atheist churches.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Hello - Again
Thanks Agricola. I was already thinking about taking it and cross-posting in New Paths.
So, along your train of thought with the secular or non-religious groups - where that leads me to think (weather you intended so or not) - in leads me to think that many secular groups are doing a better job than churches at many of the functions that churches should be excelling at. Actually, there are now many, many, many "coaching programs" and "life coaches" popping up around the country. And many of these are Christians, and many of those who are paying a lot of money to take coaching are Christians. And it makes me wonder sometimes - if churches were more effective at doing what they should be doing, would there be so much need for "coaching"?
So, along your train of thought with the secular or non-religious groups - where that leads me to think (weather you intended so or not) - in leads me to think that many secular groups are doing a better job than churches at many of the functions that churches should be excelling at. Actually, there are now many, many, many "coaching programs" and "life coaches" popping up around the country. And many of these are Christians, and many of those who are paying a lot of money to take coaching are Christians. And it makes me wonder sometimes - if churches were more effective at doing what they should be doing, would there be so much need for "coaching"?
Re: Hello - Again
That goes straight back to my earlier question for you:
what do you think that church is FOR?
Because the coc apparently thinks church is something we are commanded to do by God, and it is for God, and we have to get it precisely right (even though there aren't any clear instructions to follow) or be damned forever.
And now this discussion CLEARLY should be in the skeptics corner - or as we call it nowadays: Skeptics and Others.
Do you want me to move these posts? Or do you want to begin again, fresh, with a thread on the nature and characteristics of 'church' versus 'intentional communities'?
what do you think that church is FOR?
Because the coc apparently thinks church is something we are commanded to do by God, and it is for God, and we have to get it precisely right (even though there aren't any clear instructions to follow) or be damned forever.
And now this discussion CLEARLY should be in the skeptics corner - or as we call it nowadays: Skeptics and Others.
Do you want me to move these posts? Or do you want to begin again, fresh, with a thread on the nature and characteristics of 'church' versus 'intentional communities'?
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Hello - Again
welcome back to the forum 
Re: Hello - Again
agricola, I restarted it over in New Paths before I read your comment about Skeptics. And I think it fits better in New Paths, but you're the admin. Do as you think best.
I don't think that I'm a skeptic. My problem is that I've learned some things in my work career that I tend to carry over into other parts of my life.
We've all said the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, in my work career, we have very, very often also taken the viewpoint that "if it ain't working, it must be broken, and we must fix it" So, church doesn't work for me (and I've been to many, many different denominations and styles). Also, Barna and Pew Research have tons of data that says that church isn't working - people are leaving like rats off a sinking ship, and overall attendance is declining. All of this in spite of the fact that a new "church for people who don't like church" is popping up in every town just about every month or so.
I don't necessarily think that all churches need to change. But I would like to see some new churches that are REALLY different in their structure, format, actions, etc. Much more than just wearing jeans and having a rock band for music. Anyway, maybe some on here will discuss it with me over at New Paths.
I don't think that I'm a skeptic. My problem is that I've learned some things in my work career that I tend to carry over into other parts of my life.
We've all said the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, in my work career, we have very, very often also taken the viewpoint that "if it ain't working, it must be broken, and we must fix it" So, church doesn't work for me (and I've been to many, many different denominations and styles). Also, Barna and Pew Research have tons of data that says that church isn't working - people are leaving like rats off a sinking ship, and overall attendance is declining. All of this in spite of the fact that a new "church for people who don't like church" is popping up in every town just about every month or so.
I don't necessarily think that all churches need to change. But I would like to see some new churches that are REALLY different in their structure, format, actions, etc. Much more than just wearing jeans and having a rock band for music. Anyway, maybe some on here will discuss it with me over at New Paths.