Hi All

[JWhitehead]

Hi all,

My name is Jeremy Whitehead. I left the CoC somewhere around 20 years ago I think. Now, I'm what most would call an atheist although I really hate hanging labels on people.

First, a little background. I was born into this and religiously brainwashed from the time I could talk. My parents ran the Truth Magazine bookstore (later Guardian of Truth) till the mid 80's when it moved to Bowling Green, KY. Mom and dad decided to stay in Indiana and helped with the transition to KY. This had something to do with the people who were running the "foundation" at the time. I don't really know and don't really care what all went down there. Anyway, I wound up going to Florida College where most of CoC kids wound up. This was kind of the start of my disgust with the CoC and the hypocrites that ran things. I found out at FC that the kids there either seemed to really swallow this BS, hook line and sinker or just pretended in order to get to where they wanted to be in life. The school itself was all about the money as most schools are. They just wanted to tear down the old and build the new. They cared little about the religious beliefs of most of us...all except the super christians whose families were funding the school. THOSE KIDS - they were the entire focus of everything at FC. The school did just enough to pretend and say they cared about our spiritual life, but in reality, when I stopped going to church while attending FC, nobody there even noticed let alone tried to talk to me.

Let's skip forward a bit and just suffice to say that my time at FC was not pleasant and I didn't feel at home even a little. It was something I tolerated for 2 years while I battled myself over my beliefs. On one hand, this had been my whole life up to this point. I didn't get a choice...it was what was drilled into my head and all that I had ever known. On the other hand, I was beginning to realize that most of the kids there didn't actually believe...they were just there going through the motions and pretending. They did what kids at a "normal" college did...they just got pretty good at hiding it. I started realizing that I didn't believe this crap either and the older I got the less I actually believed any of it.

After college, I married a CoC girl that I had met through one of the camps. She was a pretty redhead and of course I was completely enamored with her. I went back to chrurch..for a while. We switched congregations thinking that maybe that would help, but it was no different. Not long after that, we moved to Georgia where her parents were living so I could take a job. Again, another new congregation...this time with her dad as one of the elders. That did not go well.

So, one Sunday, this pompous preacher who thought pretty highly of himself passed around blank note cards and asked everyone to put down questions they had about the gospel. I remember writing - "Prove beyond any reasonable doubt that any of this is real and true". That earned me an invitation to one of the classrooms and a meeting with the elders, including my Father in Law. I considered it a legitimate question. If I was going to continue fighting myself and beating myself up over how I was feeling, I wanted to at least know that this was worth fighting for. Some things were said that I don't recall now, but in the end, I remember the pompous preacher pointed his finger at me and called me "BLASPHEMER!". My father in law never said a single word. He just sat there staring at the table and never even looked up. The other Elders did pretty much the same. Nobody was interested in giving me anything to work with....I was just told that you either have faith or you don't. I left that meeting feeling nearly suicidal. I had hoped that I was just missing something and that I could reconcile myself with the beliefs of this church that had been my entire social network - up to this point. I was actually thinking maybe if I met with these "wise" older men, they could show me something that made it click. I remember telling them, I couldn't get around using the bible to prove itself to be true. There HAD to be more to it. Turns out - there wasn't. A week later, I wrote a letter to the congregation telling them I was withdrawing from them (before they could withdraw from me). I felt like they kind of just threw their take it or leave it attitude on the table and didn't really care if I stayed or quit. I was truly ashamed that my "elder" Father In Law just sat there and didn't even utter a single word. I felt like he was embarrassed by me and wished he was somewhere else. Here were were supposedly fighting for my spiritual soul and he had NOTHING AT ALL to say to me or anyone. This preacher / elder they employed did 95% of the talking and seemed to think he was just going to bully me into submission by calling me names.

Fast forward a year or two later and my Father in Law's brother was in town for a visit and we were all supposed to meet at his house for a family lunch. Only thing was...I arrived early to find the brother and his wife there waiting for me. In short order he told me that because I had believed one and no longer did that I was not welcome to set at the dinner table with him and share a meal. I was stunned. Shocked. I just turned around and left and drove back to my house. By the time I got home I was literally shaking with rage. If there was ever any hope of me returning to "the fold" of the CoC - it died that day. Clearly I was being shunned. My Father In Law told me later he didn't agree with his brother but he didn't exactly defend me either. The brother is known for being rather extreme in his views, but I felt like that to just let that stand and pretend like it didn't happen was enough that I NEVER wanted anything to do with this pretend religion ever again.

So here we are at present time. For the last 20 years, my view on things has been to just let sleeping dogs lie and maintain a somewhat chilly relationship with my in-laws. My own parents expressed their displeasure with my leaving the church but they cared so very little for my "faith" that without even trying, I kept that a secret for something like 6 or 7 years. We just never talked about it and I never brought it up. When I finally did tell them, it was a fairly short, curt discussion and that was it. My mother makes occasional, pitiful pleas with me to come back, but has completely ignored my reasons for leaving which I finally sat down and sent her in a very personal & private E-mail - which I found out later she just forwarded to her church friends. My wife of 25 years still attends that same church where it all went down still has lunch with that same pompous preacher and his wife. We have an arrangement of sorts where she does her thing and I do mine. To this point, I haven't interfered with her attending but I have demanded that she not be part of the Sunday school brainwashing of the youth. I just can't stand the thought of her doing to others what was done to me.

Yesterday however, I found out that she had added myself and my brother in Indiana to their "Prayer List". She knows VERY well how I feel about this church, so I felt kind of betrayed that she would just go ahead and do that behind my back. I suppose it's completely harmless and useless, but it still feels like kind of a betrayal of our agreement.

So...that's me in a very wordy nutshell.

[Cootie Brown]

Howdy JW and welcome aboard. You are not the only atheists here. There is me and then there is.....ah,...well.. you. At least as far as I know. There might be a few closet atheists or agnostics lingering about.
I’m a former Baptist converted to the c of C through a Bible study. My credentials include 30 years teaching Bible classes, trained evangelist....that converted many a Baptist to the c of C, served as a deacon many times, and an Elder once in the c of C and then again in an independent community church created by disgruntled c of C folk from two dying congregations.

Like you, I eventually quit pretending that the Bible wasn’t inconsistent, contradictory, historically inaccurate, and for the most part unbelievable. That lead me to studying and researching the origins and evolution of the Bible and the Christian faith from a purely secular historical perspective. And that studly convinced me that Christianity is just another one of many manmade religions with a manmade Deity or Deities in this case.

Mentally, I left the church long before I physically left it. I’ve been officially gone for eleven years now. My wife is still a believer and identifies with the Methodist Church.

Once again, welcome aboard.

[JWhitehead]

Thanks Cootie,

That's fine. I really don't need for anyone else to agree with my views on Christianity. As far as I'm concerned, I think that what everyone wants to believe is fine - even if it is wrong as wrong gets. Well..let me qualify that by stating I think it's absolutely wrong to brainwash little kids with this nonsense who of course just want to please their parents. That was done to me as a child and of course, I now resent it. It took me a number of years and a whole lot of heartache before I was finally able to break free from their crap. I think it's just downright evil to stuff this garbage into little kids minds. That of course, is the only way that religion is able to propagate because to a grown adult who hasn't been fed of steady diet of self doubt and being told how everything you think or do is a sin - it's a but much for most adults to swallow.

[teresa]

Hi JW

Your user name can be seen by anyone perusing the board. I can change it to JW, if you like.

I am fond of Cootie, and he continues to think he is the only agnostic/atheist on the board even though I have repeatedly told him otherwise.

We are here to provide support for one another as ex-CoC. You are very welcome on the board.

My husband was born into the hardline CoC, and suffered severe depression as a young man, thinking he was not good enough. When he started to question, he was marked as a false teacher and shunned by his own family. In retrospect, that allowed us to be free to think and study for ourselves.

A few years after our expulsion from the CoC (many years ago now), I had a crisis of faith, which was indescribably painful and lasted for two years or so. Once one sheds the idea that the Bible is straight from God, then the next step is to question whether there is a God. In the CoC, those two things are tied up together. In the end, some ex-CoC return to believing in God, and other ex-CoC conclude there is no God.

As I see it, what we believe or do not believe about God doesn't create or change reality. Or maybe it does. In any case, for me the important thing is that whatever we believe, or do not believe, leads us to a deeper, more compassionate understanding of the feelings and needs of others. That's an area that continues to challenge me daily.

[agricola]

Hi JW - there is no reason to 'out' yourself by name. Most people use usernames to preserve privacy.

Welcome to the ex-board! Feel free to browse around.
Although this is an 'ex' church of christ board, it is not a religion-free site. But we are a pretty DIVERSE bunch, regardless.

Feel free to browse around, and resurrect any older thread (discussion) you may find!

[Cootie Brown]

Thanks Cootie,

That's fine. I really don't need for anyone else to agree with my views on Christianity. As far as I'm concerned, I think that what everyone wants to believe is fine - even if it is wrong as wrong gets. Well..let me qualify that by stating I think it's absolutely wrong to brainwash little kids with this nonsense who of course just want to please their parents. That was done to me as a child and of course, I now resent it. It took me a number of years and a whole lot of heartache before I was finally able to break free from their crap. I think it's just downright evil to stuff this garbage into little kids minds. That of course, is the only way that religion is able to propagate because to a grown adult who hasn't been fed of steady diet of self doubt and being told how everything you think or do is a sin - it's a but much for most adults to swallow.

I think most folks that believe indoctrinating children into the faith is akin to child abuse are former believers, because they understand what these little ones are being taught. Those outside the church don’t. Fear is a big part of religion. Even adults that have left the faith often continue to fear they will end up in hell.

The fear of Hell is the big club religion uses to obtain obedience and it’s proven to be very effective. I’ve heard more than one educated adult say, “ I’d walk away today, but I just can’t take the chance that I might be wrong.” That is fear, coming from indoctrination, talking. This indoctrination begins as soon as the child is old enough to begin being trained.

Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, so there is no way to stop the indoctrination of children. Even educated adults, that should know better, are highly susceptible to religious indoctrination.

I don’t have a major problem with the “liberal” versions of Christianity, it’s the fundamentalist that I have issues with.

[gordie91]

Hi JW, welcome to the board.

I agree that to use guilt as a tool in brainwashing is terrible. I for a time resented some of the teachings I received as a child growing up in a family similar to yours. I have come to see that my parents were only doing what they believed to be the best for their children and with what they believe to be the "truth". I understand the hurt and rejection by family is difficult. Still working through it and still dealing with the slights, though less and less frequent.

My father in law, and many preachers I know or have known have written for the Truth magazine and my father in law has written a few commentaries for the series. I too, went to FC (didn't graduate, only 2 semesters) and found it to be quite strange and oh so foreign even for a hardline NI-CoC. I was there in '89 and '90. Only limited memories and most all the pleasant ones had very little to do with studies. I do remember in Caldwell's class being assigned a verse and then writing about that verse, commentary work. A few years later, Colly came out with a commentary on the very epistle we worked on in his class. I haven't read his commentary or seen it, I doubt credit was given to all the students that broke down all of the various verses. I suppose all that work had one benefit, I used that focus and research habits in my investigations concerning the historical church and after almost 20 years (started in '97) left the CoC and became Orthodox, thanks Colly for the contribution .

Anyway, welcome and hope all goes well for you and your family.

[Tsathoggua]

Wow! I enjoyed reading your story. Sorry for all that you have been through. Welcome aboard!

[Ivy]

Welcome, JW!!

[Lerk]

Hi, JW! Welcome!

I'm a closet atheist. I got outed once and had to duck back in the closet because I have a son who is a minister, and my brief conversation with him led me to realize that being truthful wasn't going to go well. Other son is an atheist and my outing had to do with that, and his father-in-law (who called the elders at my church!).

Atheist son sort-of went back in the closet, too, because his brother-in-law was shunning him. (Invited his wife to Christmas dinner, but not him!) He and his wife are not going to a CoC any more, but somewhere he and his wife can compromise on, and my other son was really angry at him for awhile, but they seem to be getting along now, so maybe I won't have to stay in the CoC forever. As far as his wife's family, right now it's "don't ask don't tell."

Both sons are FC alums, as well as my wife. You're probably a few years older than my sons. (Minister son did Alabama Camp a couple of summers, and still does Dry Creek.)

Anyway, I certainly know where you're coming from! On the other hand, you probably have it tougher than I do, because I'm too chicken to be true to myself. My wife gives me grief once in a while, but that's really gotten better in the last couple of years.

Hope you find this board helpful.