My story of leaving the coC

[SolaDude]

I spent 15 years reading a Bible and not being able to reconcile what I read with what I was being taught, which is what lead to my spiritual decline. I just stopped reading. I felt stuck...….And they can say that they don’t believe that. But they do. They show they believe that way by their actions.

After I started reading it, I found all sorts of things never mentioned in their cherry picked scriptures-based sermons. Top that off with their insistence that God somehow changed (for themselves, I presume) and their interpretation just comes out as irrational. It's so rational and logical to see the Bible as a story of the church (God's people) from Genesis to Revelation.....

[Sean]

Good to read your story GraceFaith. It brings back both the good memories and the bad memories of our (wife and I) own departure. The list of charges that they always seem to come up with...wow. Yes the bizarre accusations and charges about things that seemingly popped up out of the blue and no one had even talked to us about (if really was such a big deal why hadn't they at least talked to us?). And then the accusations that we were being superior, prideful, harmful, intolerant, selfish, biased, cliquish, etc. All the things they were doing openly they accused us of...of course when they did it they justified themselves (as they always do) by telling themselves that they were right and just. I have had all sorts of mean and nasty things said about me and to me...all in trying to make the case that I am mean and nasty. Talk about some conditional group-think conformity friendship...sheesh, let me tall ya, I have experienced it to the max.

And yes it is sobering when you think back about the people who left CofC over the years and how we gave them the treatment we now have received as we left. Ouch...that really got to me when I realized I was angry and hating people for doing the very things I had done or gone along with when it was done to others.

But I said good memories as well. I recall clearly the week after we left and siting at home on a Sunday morning early and sitting outside reading Romans out loud to myself. It was like hearing it for the first time, I was so enthused and happy, it just seemed suddenly so different, so fresh.

We embarked on the church brand visitation exploring journey to see what was out there as we had been raised CofC. We never found anything that we (or maybe just me) liked or was comfortable with doing. I eventually gave up and came to the POV that all church is the same and that I don't trust or want the organized religion stuff. To me, I just came to see that in the New Testament there just seems to be no notion of group "worship" or a "worship service". So I like to sing some songs and hear a good speaker....but I am not at all convinced there is any worship in terms of "group worship". It seems to me that the simple and conservative Presbyterian "service" is very similar to that of CofC.

But it sound like things for the moment in at least this aspect are going well for you and your family, so that is great news.

[GraceFaith]

All the things they were doing openly they accused us of...of course when they did it they justified themselves (as they always do) by telling themselves that they were right and just... Talk about some conditional group-think conformity friendship.


I recall clearly the week after we left and siting at home on a Sunday morning early and sitting outside reading Romans out loud to myself. It was like hearing it for the first time, I was so enthused and happy, it just seemed suddenly so different, so fresh.


But it sound like things for the moment in at least this aspect are going well for you and your family, so that is great news.

Yes. The hypocrisy in their judgments were astounding. Being told "there's not another sound church within a hundred miles of here" really made me shake my head in disbelief. I mean, you're telling US that WE are proud? Really??? You don't see the pride in that attitude - that you claim you're the ONLY church in this huuuuuge city we live in that is doing things correctly? Unbelievable.

I relate to your memory of reading Romans out loud to yourself. I did the same thing. Romans was the first book of the Bible I studied on my own after we left, and I actually enjoyed reading it for myself. I loved that I was able to look at it through my own eyes and not through the lens that the coC wanted me to use.

Things are actually going really well. We love our new church family. It's a beautiful thing to find a church that is based on Bible, that has a healthy balance of fear/respect of God but also His grace. Our children are thriving; their beliefs are going to be all their own, not just what someone tells them is or isn't the right way to believe. We are very blessed and so thankful to God for working things out the way He did. Even though leaving was awful because of the way everyone treated us, it really did make it easier to walk away, and God led us where we needed to go. It's been quite the journey.

[Lerk]

Do write a letter, for legal reasons, informing the Elders that you are withdrawing your membership from that congregation and the Churches of Christ. At that point they have no legal authority over you. It’s important that you do that other wise you are legally still under their authority.

I have no idea what you're talking about here, Cootie! Maybe something different in mainline vs. NI churches? As far as I know, telling the elders at the CoC you're a member of (if they have elders -- dunno what you'd do otherwise) makes you not a member of a local church, and since there's no such thing as membership in a higher-level body, then I don't know what else could happen, other than gossip. (In fact, when people in our congregation leave and it isn't because they're moving away, it never even gets announced.)

The reason I ask about it is that if I can get my wife on board, I want to simply tell the elders that we're uncomfortable due to the crowded conditions and so looking for another church, and would no longer like to be considered members. What else do they need to know? They delete me from the "CongreGATE software" website roll, and poof, I'm gone! If I decide to go to a mainline CoC, or a Christian Church, or an Episcopal church, or to stay home on Sundays, it doesn't matter because they can't "withdraw" from me if I'm no longer a member. I suppose if they found out what I'd decided to do, they could get up and ask people to pray for me and maybe contact me if they thought they might have some influence.

Legally under their authority? Even members aren't legally under their authority. The only "authority" they ever had was to apply social pressure. I never signed any sort of contract, I never committed even informally to a particular weekly contribution. If my name were on the deed to the property, then maybe there would be some legal obligation. (Although I know of a church where the members whose names were on the deed of the fully paid-off property ended up losing the congregation to a preacher who brought in his own converts and managed to make the original folks unwelcome. Maybe they could have taken it to court, but they didn't have the will do follow through.)

Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong -- I just don't know what I'm missing! I've changed congregations before before even knowing where I'd be next. Do I need to worry?

Does it work differently in the mainline churches?

[Cootie Brown]

kJ

Do write a letter, for legal reasons, informing the Elders that you are withdrawing your membership from that congregation and the Churches of Christ. At that point they have no legal authority over you. It’s important that you do that other wise you are legally still under their authority.

I have no idea what you're talking about here, Cootie! Maybe something different in mainline vs. NI churches? As far as I know, telling the elders at the CoC you're a member of (if they have elders -- dunno what you'd do otherwise) makes you not a member of a local church, and since there's no such thing as membership in a higher-level body, then I don't know what else could happen, other than gossip. (In fact, when people in our congregation leave and it isn't because they're moving away, it never even gets announced.)

The reason I ask about it is that if I can get my wife on board, I want to simply tell the elders that we're uncomfortable due to the crowded conditions and so looking for another church, and would no longer like to be considered members. What else do they need to know? They delete me from the "CongreGATE software" website roll, and poof, I'm gone! If I decide to go to a mainline CoC, or a Christian Church, or an Episcopal church, or to stay home on Sundays, it doesn't matter because they can't "withdraw" from me if I'm no longer a member. I suppose if they found out what I'd decided to do, they could get up and ask people to pray for me and maybe contact me if they thought they might have some influence.

Legally under their authority? Even members aren't legally under their authority. The only "authority" they ever had was to apply social pressure. I never signed any sort of contract, I never committed even informally to a particular weekly contribution. If my name were on the deed to the property, then maybe there would be some legal obligation. (Although I know of a church where the members whose names were on the deed of the fully paid-off property ended up losing the congregation to a preacher who brought in his own converts and managed to make the original folks unwelcome. Maybe they could have taken it to court, but they didn't have the will do follow through.)

Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong -- I just don't know what I'm missing! I've changed congregations before before even knowing where I'd be next. Do I need to worry?

Does it work differently in the mainline churches?

This comes from a legal case involving the c of C in Arkansas back in the 80’s. A lady was being harassed, due to her lifestyle, by members of the congregation and the Elders. They just wouldn’t stop, so she took legal action against them.

One of our members was a lawyer. His opinion was that Legally, when a person places membership with any religious group, they are voluntarily agreeing to abide by their doctrines, laws, rules, etc. As long as they are members they have agreed to abide by and accept the rules, etc. of that particular religious group including their right to discipline members.

The was the c of C’s defense for their actions in the Arkansas case. Thus the need for a formal notice of membership termination from the member to stop the harassment. The lady won the case and was awarded monetary damages because she had made repeated request to terminate her membership, but her request was ignored.

A verbal request to place membership before witnesses (the congregation) can be interpreted as a legal contract. Obviously such a contract would rarely be enforced by a church,......except when dealing with extreme fundamentals as noted in the Arkansas case. In any event, it’s a good idea to inform church leaders, in writing, that you are dissolving your membership with that group or congregation especially if they are fundamentalist.

[Ivy]

A verbal request to place membership before witnesses (the congregation) can be interpreted as a legal contract. Obviously such a contract would rarely be enforced by a church,......except when dealing with extreme fundamentals as noted in the Arkansas case. In any event, it’s a good idea to inform church leaders, in writing, that you are dissolving your membership with that group or congregation especially if they are fundamentalist.

LEGAL CONTRACT!!!! This makes me *SHUDDER*!!!!!

So glad to be out of all that drama.

[Lerk]

I remember a church in Oklahoma being taken to court by a former member. Someone familiar with the case told me they had posted a notice of withdrawal from her in a public place (like a grocery store bulletin board or some such).

Ah! It's the Collinsville, OK, Church of Christ.

This 1984 article in "The Oklahoman" doesn't mention the public posting, so I could be wrong. I just remember being told that the church had done a lot wrong, and that it shouldn't affect churches' ability to withdraw from members. The article does say that the woman had already resigned from the church, and that they hadn't accepted her resignation.

Searching further: I still can't find anything about the public posting, so it seems that was bad information. This 1989 article in Tulsa World says that the OK Supreme Court said she had no grievance over the church's actions while she was still a member, but that she did have a grievance due to their actions after she had resigned.

And the whole thing is so typical! Another article I found, an interview 20 years later with the church's lawyer, says that she was an unmarried mother of three and that the church had helped her quite a bit, but after she got on her feet she wasn't so interested in attending any more. I've seen that several times myself. But in the CoC, you don't let people go! So when she was going to get married, they met with her several times to try to talk her out of it. After she resigned they weren't willing to let go, it seems. Wow, this is all so familiar. They don't want to help people, they want to "save" them. Makes sense when you're on the inside, but from outside it's horrifying. The MDR rules ruin people's lives. Plus, churches latch on to people like that and the people latched onto are probably pretty happy at first -- until it starts to feel like a cult.

Anyway, other than public embarrassment and harassment (sending letters, elders attempting to contact you, announcing to the congregation that people should contact you, and finally that they have withdrawn from you) the church can't really do anything.

As you say, if you go through the process of doing it yourself (especially officially, in writing), then they can't legally do anything other than announce that you're no longer a member. But you know good and well they'll say something like "if you feel you still might have any influence on them, their soul's in danger, so please try to help them!"

[Tsathoggua]

I remember a church in Oklahoma being taken to court by a former member. Someone familiar with the case told me they had posted a notice of withdrawal from her in a public place (like a grocery store bulletin board or some such).

Ah! It's the Collinsville, OK, Church of Christ.

This 1984 article in "The Oklahoman" doesn't mention the public posting, so I could be wrong. I just remember being told that the church had done a lot wrong, and that it shouldn't affect churches' ability to withdraw from members. The article does say that the woman had already resigned from the church, and that they hadn't accepted her resignation.

Searching further: I still can't find anything about the public posting, so it seems that was bad information. This 1989 article in Tulsa World says that the OK Supreme Court said she had no grievance over the church's actions while she was still a member, but that she did have a grievance due to their actions after she had resigned.

And the whole thing is so typical! Another article I found, an interview 20 years later with the church's lawyer, says that she was an unmarried mother of three and that the church had helped her quite a bit, but after she got on her feet she wasn't so interested in attending any more. I've seen that several times myself. But in the CoC, you don't let people go! So when she was going to get married, they met with her several times to try to talk her out of it. After she resigned they weren't willing to let go, it seems. Wow, this is all so familiar. They don't want to help people, they want to "save" them. Makes sense when you're on the inside, but from outside it's horrifying. The MDR rules ruin people's lives. Plus, churches latch on to people like that and the people latched onto are probably pretty happy at first -- until it starts to feel like a cult.

Anyway, other than public embarrassment and harassment (sending letters, elders attempting to contact you, announcing to the congregation that people should contact you, and finally that they have withdrawn from you) the church can't really do anything.

As you say, if you go through the process of doing it yourself (especially officially, in writing), then they can't legally do anything other than announce that you're no longer a member. But you know good and well they'll say something like "if you feel you still might have any influence on them, their soul's in danger, so please try to help them!"

Aw, man, that is truly weird, wild stuff! Scary!

[ena]

Once you reject their authority they have none. Slavery was rejected long ago.