Hello - Again

[KLP]

A lot of what you said was important to us and after we tried all the places around we ended up just doing "home church" and that sort of grew and for awhile it was sort of like a community or equals. But then some started wanting "the show" back by wanting a preacher/sermon and a set schedule and it just became more and more like old church. And then there was a push for "well we need to grow and we need a building" if we are to be taken seriously and being serious about growing. It just fell apart because half couldn't stand the idea of getting the building thing going and the sermon show had already become such a drag. These people could not handle the idea of really just being independent and doing community stuff together without having to get the stamp of organizational approval.

I see this in homeschooling circles also...where folks exit out of "the system" but then end up wanting some co-op to do things like grade papers and give transcripts and eventually just teach their children for them...it goes full circle back to what they left in the first place. People have a hard time remaining confident in being independent, it is more work and effort, it is easier in many ways to just show up and get your card punched and move on. But eventually you get sick of this and so starts the circle of life again...lol...always ending up in mediocrity.

[AtPeace]

I'm glad you're here! I think where you are in your life would be fascinating to discuss with others.

You said:

I've been "done" with the CoC for a long time, and I'm now done with traditional church. It was actually hard for me to type that. Anyway, this group may not be exactly what I was looking for, but I'm sure that I can find some good discussion and support here.

I admire you for being brave enough to put into written words where you are. I understand, because sometimes things just aren't completely "real" to me until I write them down...then they are. Hurray for you!

I think a whole lot of people go to church/mosque/synagogue, etc. for the very things you're getting in the group you described. I also think a whole lot of people who don't go to church/mosque/synagogue, etc., and feel pressured to, are simply folks who don't require that type of social discourse.

[agricola]

agricola, I restarted it over in New Paths before I read your comment about Skeptics. And I think it fits better in New Paths, but you're the admin. Do as you think best.

I don't think that I'm a skeptic. My problem is that I've learned some things in my work career that I tend to carry over into other parts of my life.

We've all said the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Well, in my work career, we have very, very often also taken the viewpoint that "if it ain't working, it must be broken, and we must fix it" So, church doesn't work for me (and I've been to many, many different denominations and styles). Also, Barna and Pew Research have tons of data that says that church isn't working - people are leaving like rats off a sinking ship, and overall attendance is declining. All of this in spite of the fact that a new "church for people who don't like church" is popping up in every town just about every month or so.

I don't necessarily think that all churches need to change. But I would like to see some new churches that are REALLY different in their structure, format, actions, etc. Much more than just wearing jeans and having a rock band for music. Anyway, maybe some on here will discuss it with me over at New Paths.

New Paths is where people tell us where they are going now and we say 'how wonderful' no matter what, pretty much. Or there are threads about particular faiths or denominations and people ask questions and get answers. It is NOT a place for debate or discussion, particularly.

It seemed to me you wanted a discussion/debate, but if you just want to talk about where you are now, or where you are going, or want to find like-minded people to talk together, then New Paths is fine.

You don't have to be a skeptic to post in the skeptic's forum (that's why it says skeptics and OTHERS) but free thought, debate and open doubt are encouraged there, and people who want to push a certain theological doctrine in that forum are discouraged.

At any rate, a discussion/debate about 'what IS 'church'?' would fit in Skeptics and Others quite nicely.

[rehabber7]

agricola - regardless of where the topic goes (or should go), I have absolutely no desire at all to "debate" it with anyone. Discuss it, yes. Debate it, no.