New Old Member

[Lerk]

Hello, all! I've been here before. My user name would have been either "Two" or "MisterTwo." I can't seem to find the log-in for that account and it may be that I don't have the old email address any more, or else I haven't been on since the board moved.

So, since you won't remember me anyway, I originally signed up for this board when I was still a member of "The Church" and really hoping to effect some changes. I believe there was a second board for those still "in" so I participated over there more often.

Then, almost 6 years ago, I was sitting in church one morning and the preacher read a couple of verses from Genesis 3. I read the whole chapter and it hit me that there was no "Satan" in the chapter, only an actual snake. Once I realized that, I started finding all of the things in the Bible that were not what I had been taught, were historically inaccurate, or actually contradicted other passages.

Since I knew now that fundamentalist Christianity was wrong, I figured I had one very important thing to try to understand: Is liberal Christianity correct, or is it actually all bogus.

With fundamentalist Christianity (the way I've always seen it) the entire Bible has to be 100% consistent and true, or it isn't worth the paper it's written on. That's what I'd always heard in "the Church". "If you can find one error, then the Bible can't be trusted!" is what I'd always heard.

But I know that most mainline denominations don't operate that way, so I wondered whether becoming an Episcopalian or Lutheran might be the thing to do. I explored that for about a month, but I really couldn't shake my fundamentalist upbringing in that regard. If the book begins with myths, then at what point was I to start believing it? Looks like Abraham and Moses are just legend, since it seems Israel was never in Egypt. Maybe the real stuff starts with Saul? Oh, but Daniel is a book written during Persian rule, about a legendary figure who would have lived under Babylonian rule... historical fiction with an apocalyptic message!

Ultimately I decided that none of it was really believable. The way I put it is that the Bible is a book of myths, legends, and embellished history, but none of it is evidence that there are any such things as gods, spirits, demons, or that the human mind is anything other than an emergent property stemming from memories and the senses, not something that lives on after the body dies. I now believe that all religions are simply assertions based on mere speculation, memes that develop and evolve over time as people speculate more and attempt to resolve logical contradictions. I am an atheist.

But I'm a closet atheist, and still attend a non-institutional Church of Christ. (I refuse to use a little-c on "church.") I have one son who has deconverted, and the other one is a preacher. I was outed some time ago (atheist son's father-in-law called the elders at my church and told them about my blog!) and figured out really quickly that that was going to cause problems with the preacher son. I couldn't figure out how bad the problems would be, so I "went forward" and confessed, and took down the blog I'd been writing. I did not say, in my confession, that I believed. I just said I would study and try to find my way back. I even did an email study with a mainline CoC preacher, but I didn't find my way back!

In my long talk with my believing son he agreed that perhaps Moses believed that the other gods were real but that Jehovah was superior, but he ended up saying "just tell me that you believe that Jesus is the son of God." So I said "yes." (Hopefully he'll experience some cognitive dissonance whenever he reads Numbers 28 (ESV) in the future.)

I took myself off of the duty list for services. I go on Sunday mornings even when my wife doesn't make it. When she isn't there, I read books on my phone. When she's there, I use the Bible on my phone. Sunday nights and Wednesday nights I only go if she goes. (She has health problems so she misses a lot.)

Anyway, that's my life now! My sons seem to not be talking to each other. But we still have relationships with both of them, and they're both married and have children. Atheist son's wife is still a believer but they aren't doing Church of Christ. My main outlets when Christianity is driving me crazy are podcasts (which I listen to on my commute) and Patheos/Nonreligious, especially the "Roll to Disbelieve" blog.

I realize that we have a mix of believers and non-believers on this board, perhaps mostly believers. I'm not a sarcastic person and would never be rude to people who don't believe the same things I do. I was a believer until I was 52 years old, so I know where people are coming from.

I look forward to spending time here.

[Cootie Brown]

Full disclosure. I met Lerk over at Ex-Christian and invited him to activate his account again. He's a great guy, but more importantly he's on my team and my team is rather sparse. Lerk it seems it's me, you, Tarheel, and Tsathoggua9 that went over to the dark side and I suspect a half dozen or more closet nones.

Nones meaning they ain't sure what they are or what they believe for sure, but that's okay. It's all part of the journey.

Welcome aboard Lerk. Try not to get banned, okay? We don't have a big bullpen.

[Tsathoggua]

Hey, I enjoyed reading your post! thanks for sharing.

[teresa]

Welcome to the board. Enjoyed your introduction.

[gordie91]

Welcome to the board!

[flawed]

Hi Lerk, I’ve fallen into the non-believer category also, although I’m still in the closet when it comes to my parents and siblings. I guess it’s the fundamentalist part of my indoctrinated brain that just can’t comprehend that if it’s not all true, then none of it is...and how you’re supposed to know which is or isn’t true. The Bible Unearthed was a big eye opener for me, as well as The Clergy Project, and several other books that really made me question Christianity and ultimately led to my current non-belief state. Welcome back.

[Ivy]

Welcome back, Lerk!!

Cootie, just curious......what did you mean by this:

Lerk it seems it's me, you, Tarheel, and Tsathoggua9 that went over to the dark side and I suspect a half dozen or more closet nones.

You mean from the "Discussion Board"?

[Cootie Brown]

Welcome back, Lerk!!

Cootie, just curious......what did you mean by this:

Lerk it seems it's me, you, Tarheel, and Tsathoggua9 that went over to the dark side and I suspect a half dozen or more closet nones.

You mean from the "Discussion Board"?

No, I meant we left the faith & are no longer believers. If you're a Star Wars fan it means the Force is no longer with us. We joined Vader on the Dark Side.

[agricola]

Hi Lerk! Welcome to the board!
Have you considered inspecting yourself to see why it seems very important that scriptures (whichever ones) 'have to' be factual in order to be important?

I think - myself - that's a carryover from a fundamentalist mindset, and not QUITE an absolute deal breaker for everyone. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Tsathoggua]

Welcome back, Lerk!!

Cootie, just curious......what did you mean by this:

Lerk it seems it's me, you, Tarheel, and Tsathoggua9 that went over to the dark side and I suspect a half dozen or more closet nones.

You mean from the "Discussion Board"?

No, I meant we left the faith & are no longer believers. If you're a Star Wars fan it means the Force is no longer with us. We joined Vader on the Dark Side.

Yes, that is quite accurate, as far as I'm concerned. I pal around with Vader, Cthulhu, Doctor Doom, and many other not-so-fine folk....