Lingering doubts

[Pitts S2C]

I've been gone for 3.5 years after being in The Church my entire life. On occasion, a little doubt creeps in. However, I cringe every time my Father says the words "their a liberal Church". Of course, everyone else is liberal just not them. It subsidies over time. I don't miss hearing from my Grandparents that you must entertain Preachers and Elders. Where does that come from?

Hang in there and spend time with people who will challenge your thinking. They are Not the only ones who are right.

[flawed]

Thanks for all the encouraging responses. Several years ago I was actually part of a coc that I really loved and was pretty active in. The sermons were actually encouraging (this was the first time I ever remember hearing a sermon about gods grace and love), they had programs that helped out in the community and they differed in coc traditions such as occasional hand clapping in songs and ,gasp, singing a song about the crucifixion during the lords supper. A weekend visit from my parents resulted in them refusing to ever attend that church again and led to months of awkward phone calls and letters, not just from them, but other church members they told, about how my soul and my family's soul were in jeopardy of eternal hell fire if we continued to attend there since they were in error and no better than the "denominations". It all just got too much to handle for me and to make peace I ended up giving in and moved to another super conservative church that my parents are just thrilled with. The end result has been my husband doesn't go to church at all anymore, there's maybe 5 other members there that are under 65, my children have, on a good day, 2 kids that are around their age, and I am dying spiritually. But I guess it's a small price to pay to keep the parents happy and be part of a "sound" congregation, right?

[agricola]

No it isn't. It is far too high a price. Who 'rules' your family? you and your husband, or your parents? You are taking yourself and children to a place where you get no spiritual nourishment, no true friends, and no comfort for you or your children. How is that a good outcome?

However, you aren't the first or only coc'er to run across this sort of manipulation and 'guilting' behavior.

Ok guys - what is the name of that book people keep recommending? The one on 'Boundaries'? Help me come up with some resources to recommend!

I THINK it is this one, but I'm not certain:

h**p://smile.amazon.com/Boundaries-Where-Begin%C2%97-Recognize-Healthy/dp/1568380305/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1462311475&sr=8-7&keywords=Boundaries


BTW, flawed - you may want to do some browsing in our 'Spiritual, Emotional and Physical Abuse' forum. I think you'll find some very familiar stuff there.

[flawed]

[quote="agricola"]No it isn't. It is far too high a price. Who 'rules' your family? you and your husband, or your parents? You are taking yourself and children to a place where you get no spiritual nourishment, no true friends, and no comfort for you or your children. How is that a good outcome?

Yes I know how messed up it is, which only leaves me that much more conflicted. The rational part of my brain feels so angry for allowing this to happen, however the indoctrinated part of my brain is always there whispering "get ready for your eternal wennie roast"- your hearts not right, you're just being rebellious to your parents who know everything about how God requires to be worshipped and you don't...even if you are almost 40 years old, must always please them. And then that leads to my kids and the thoughts of why I was terrified to have kids in the first place because I am supposed to teach them a doctrine that I can't even believe so they will all be roasting right there with me because I failed as a parent. And the circle of doubt continues, over and over.

[FinallyFree]

Flawed, I am very sorry you are in this situation . I understand how hard it all is.

[agricola]

Here's a verse (for those who want and need them) - or verses, really -
Genesis 2:24
Matthew 19:5
Ephesians 5:31
(if I got those right)
A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, they two shall be one flesh....

It's that 'leaving the parents' part and 'the two shall be one' part which are important here. You are not a child. You do not owe them any more than normal parental respect ('honor'). That 'honor' involves not deliberately shaming them, but it does not mean you surrender your own soul over to their care.
You have a conscience of your own. Your primary obligations are not to your parents, but to your children and to yourself and your self-respect.

You cannot control what they think, or how they react. You can, however, control your own mind and will. You are not responsible for their reactions, however difficult. Setting new boundaries is hard (and takes a considerable amount of stubbornness and repetition). Right now, it is like you don't even have boundaries between your parents and your own family. They continue to see you as a child to be led because you are letting them lead you. When are you going to leave your parents? Possibly they won't like it. Probably they will not behave well. But that is on them, not on you.

Believe me, I TOTALLY understand conflict avoidance. I am a huge conflict avoider myself. But not at ALL costs.

Can you move? Like, across the country? Lose your phone? Emigrate to Fiji? Physical distance does help!

[flawed]

I'm already 6 hours away-which is good and bad. Bad that the visits are mentally exhausting and there's no escaping after a couple hours like if we could just drop by for a visit, especially now that the husband does not attend church and the conversations always come up about how sad that is, plus the very awkward remarks mostly my mom makes to him about missing him in church today. That I will put a stop to on the next visit if she starts that again. Good that they only occur 3 or 4 times a year. I know their intentions are good, they are very kind and loving people that would do anything for me, but they are completely convinced its toe the line coc pattern or hell bound. My biggest conflict is less with them and more about convincing myself that the coc is in fact not the only "true church". If I can get to the point where I truly believe that and lose the "what if they're right" doubts, then I will have no problem standing my ground. I just haven't been able to get myself there yet, The legalism and patternistic law is proving to be very difficult for me to overcome. That's why I've been so grateful to find this board, and really do appreciate all the feedback from folks who have been down this road already.

[agricola]

What works for a lot of people is NOT to try and persuade them of anything. When they bring up 'church' topics, change the subject. Change it again. Do not engage. Do not try and persuade them that you are right, or that they are wrong. Let them be with their beliefs, but do not engage with them in argument or discussion on the topic at all.

If all else fails, smile and pick up and leave.

Talk weather, talk sports, talk gardening, talk childhood diseases, but don't talk 'church'. Redirect the conversation every time they bring it up. Ignore statements they interject into the conversation, as if they never occurred. Change the subject. Go back to the previous topic. Say 'oh look at the time! We need to hit the road' and go.

And don't visit on Sundays. It's fresh on their minds on Sundays.

You'll find more on this sort of topic in the Abuse forum.

[katisha]

I never have any doubts about leaving or have regretted it for one second.

Amen to that. Best decision I ever made.

[HighLiter871]

My biggest conflict is less with them and more about convincing myself that the coc is in fact not the only "true church".

It took me a long time to realize, at the 'gut' level, the silliness of the coc position -- that what it teaches about itself is nonsense. What helped the most was simply doing a little historical research about where and when they got started. A couple of websites for openers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Sommer


Here's a quote from the first site:

"Among the new denominations that grew from the religious ferment of the Second Great Awakening are the Churches of Christ,Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and the Evangelical Christian Church in Canada." And there's more about the "Restoration Movement."

They can talk all day about how the folks of that era merely "restored" the Church (where had it gone?), but that's called "tip-toeing through the tulips" or pretending historical fact is something other than . . .well, historical fact.

A deep appreciation for objective truth, and perhaps immersing oneself in a faith system that is comfortable with it (if you so choose), should clear the way for an adult faith. I feel like it did for me.

But you probably can't expect your parents to grasp it; their beliefs were formed in a different time and the blinders they wear are most likely permanently affixed. So the challenge is to let it be, and be at peace. Easier said then done, but doable all the same.