Guinn v. Collinsville Church of Christ

[OneStrike_ur_out]

Anyone remember this case from the early 1980's? Marian Guinn sued the Collinsville Church of Christ for publicly shaming her by denouncing her for the sin of fornication. She had already met with the elders and told them that she would like to withdraw herself from the congregation. She did that so as to avoid them making a spectacle out of it and yet, they went right ahead and ran her name through the mud. She, along with her lawyer and the elders and deacons of that church appeared on the Phil Donahue show in 1984. I remember my mom watching that episode of Donahue and being pissed at the woman saying that she really could care less about what was said publicly regarding her committing fornication. It was all about the money to her. I think that the parties finally reached an out of court settlement in 1989. I find it interesting that this hasn't happened more often, given how the cOC plays fast and loose with what they will say about former members in a public setting. Years later, I believe that my mom actually came to empathize with that woman, seeing as she would go through something similar in the late 1990's. And all my mom did was to start going to another cOC! She didn't "sin in a way that brought shame upon the church". She simply left and placed membership at another cOC. But...she got withdrawn from at her former cOC for doing that! Even to the point that some elders showed up at a service at her new congregation and handed her the letter. The men of that cOC knew those elders from my mom's former cOC and told them to leave the property. They then took the letter that was handed to my mom and chunked it into the garbage. They were nice guys who looked out for my mom. But,I do wonder if other cOCs have ended up in court over the issue of public shaming.

[FinallyFree]

I remember Phil Donahue had an episode about that case.

[Ivy]

Yes, we've discussed that situation several times on here, I believe...it comes up fairly often. It is an interesting case study.

I am sorry that happened to your mother, and glad the church she had escaped to had supported her when that
outrageous incident occurred.

I find it interesting that this hasn't happened more often, given how the cOC plays fast and loose with what they will say about former members in a public setting.

They sure do, or at least they used to. I can't speak for now, since I haven't attended in years. I think they may be getting away from the over the top intrusiveness, thanks to the Marian Guinn lawsuit. I think some good really did come from that legal action being taken. They have no right to violate people's privacy and personal freedoms the way they do.

I believe that many of us may owe Ms. Guinn a debt of gratitude...no matter what her motive may have been.

[OneStrike_ur_out]

That is so true, Ivy. There is no telling how much grief Ms. Guinn saved individuals who have left the cOC through the years. It was always killed me that people who actually told the church that they were leaving would still end up receiving a withdrawal letter. It's like the cOC had to have the final word in the matter. I recall one instance where someone left the cOC of their own volition, an then not only were they withdrawn from a year or so later, but they were instructed to tell people that they were withdrawn from if anyone asked! It's like they were telling them that they were not allowed to say that they left on their own.

[Ivy]

That is so true, Ivy. There is no telling how much grief Ms. Guinn saved individuals who have left the cOC through the years. It was always killed me that people who actually told the church that they were leaving would still end up receiving a withdrawal letter. It's like the cOC had to have the final word in the matter. I recall one instance where someone left the cOC of their own volition, an then not only were they withdrawn from a year or so later, but they were instructed to tell people that they were withdrawn from if anyone asked! It's like they were telling them that they were not allowed to say that they left on their own.

Yep. They have to have the last word. Because they're right and you're wrong.

[Struggler]

It is my understanding the original court ruling was that once she resigned from the church, they had no more jurisdiction over her, and any attempts to "discipline" her constituted harassment. After a bunch of appeals, both sides reached a settlement.
Makes sense to me. Once you leave any organization, it does not, nor should it, have any jurisdiction over you.
She was smart to get outta there.

[B.H.]

The appellate court ruled the church did not owe her any money for the discipline before she resigned, only after she resigned. Now, there are liars from the coc who say she lost it. She didnt. The appellate court upheld her right to leave without harrassment and further so called discipline from the elders. I read parts of the case transcripts years ago and the elders didnt even follow the bible on how and when to disfellowship someone anyway. Ms. Guinn had an affair but she repented of it and confessed to someone she trusted. The elders insist she apologize to the whole church and she said there was no need since she repented and stopped the affair. They told her would disfellowship her if she didnt do as they wanted. BIBLE says not to shame a repentant sinner so the elders messed up there.

[Ivy]

It is my understanding the original court ruling was that once she resigned from the church, they had no more jurisdiction over her, and any attempts to "discipline" her constituted harassment. After a bunch of appeals, both sides reached a settlement.
Makes sense to me. Once you leave any organization, it does not, nor should it, have any jurisdiction over you.
She was smart to get outta there.

I agree with you on that, Struggler!! She was wise to leave.

[Ivy]

I wonder what Ms. Guinn is doing now. We should invite her to stop by as a guest poster.

[ena]

The woman caught in adultry. Jesus said go on your way a sin no more. Were they hiding under the bed?

john 4 kjv
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

*********
I look forward to living water.