Disfellowship stories/issues?

[longdistancerunner]

I always heard a lot of talk about the practice of disfellowship in the 60's and 70's sermons at the CoC but it never happened where I went. Although people talked about places it had occurred. There were even sermons about it. One time they announced their was a plan was for the elders to start visiting people who hadn't attended and threaten them with starting the procedure. I wonder if anyone else was at a church this actually happened and could relate the story.

There is some question is to whether or not what the CoC practiced was really biblical, I found this interesting posting from a current CoC preacher where he claims it is not. http://www.christianuniverse.com/doctrine/docdisc/disfellowship.htm

Interestingly the group that seems to have the most common use of disfellowshipping is Jehovah Witnesses, I have even seen movies about this happening with people being shunned at their parents or sibling's funerals. Amish and Mennonites also commonly use a similar practice called shunning. Most churches have some kind of discipline and I was surprised even the Unitarian Univeralists have done something similar. The thing I find really interesting about Jehovah Witnesses is they do permit drinking beer in moderation.

[B.H.]

A preacher got disfellowshiped at a church I was a member of 30 or more years ago. He had a mistress back home and missed her and got on a plane and abandoned his family. The elders withdrew fellowship from him that Sunday morning. I knew all of those elders very well. None of them wanted to but felt they had too and it broke their hearts.

[zeek]

I saw it done a few times during my years in the hard line coC. It was never pretty and it always seemed to me to be applied very selectively. I was threatened with it when I left the hard line congregation, I was at, for a much more liberal one that the Head Elder's own daughter had gone to. I pushed really hard before I left them for them to withdraw from her, knowing they never would in a million years. I knew by them refusing to do anything to her I would be insulated against them trying to smear me for doing the same thing she did. When they threatened me, I made it plain that if they made any public comment about me, I would sue not just the congregation but the individual elders, they dropped it. As to whether it is Biblical or not, I believe there is a basis in the New Testament for some form of discipline that includes "shunning". Paul in his writings instructed to "mark and avoid those who walked disorderly and caused division." Also, he told the congregation at Corinth to "deliver to Satan" the man who had taken his father's wife and wouldn't repent. In his second letter he admonished them to restore the now repentant brother and to confirm their love for him. This indicates that some kind of shunning behavior had been practiced.

[Ivy]

Always an interesting topic, longdistancerunner.

I have wondered what the "marking" was. Sending out letters, a scarlet letter around the neck...it doesn't really say. But I remember those words in a discussion about whether they would "mark and withdraw" from someone...a really nice couple who had each been divorced before they married each other. It was a really ugly scene and I never want to see that again. That was pretty much the beginning of the end of my cofc journey. I would say it was actually traumatizing, not only to that poor couple, but also to the rest of the church members who witnessed this debacle. I think the couple left and went to a more grace-oriented church somewhere. Nowdays, it seems like the cofc has become much more accepting of a divorce / remarriage situation. I know of a few who were left alone about it.

This is an aside, only barely related. In the series of novels starting with "Clan of the Cave Bear" (prehistoric fiction by Jean Auel) there is a scene where a woman is basically withdrawn from by the clan because of something she did that they could not understand or tolerate. She would have to go it on her own out in the wild. When the banning was pronounced by the clan leaders, one by one the clan members acted as though by magic they could no longer see her, like she had disappeared. She was completely alone.

[longdistancerunner]

Ivy: I had never heard of "marking" very interesting. In my mothers church the minister here, a young and nice man, occasionally refuses to marry members there who he feels do not meet the scriptural requirements for divorce. It is a bit hard for me to understand how a preacher can decide this, but maybe people just admit their divorce was not for adultery (I guess being beaten half to death just doesn't meet the requirements). There was an interesting case in the area I live (Southwest TN) which received national attention, Mary Winkler was tried for murdering her husband for abuse, her Husband was a CoC minister here. As I remember it the abuse was not physical but he demanded that she wear certain erotic clothing and do role playing. She shot him in the back with a 12 gauge shotgun. She was acquitted of murder but convicted of voluntary manslslaughter. The case received national press coverage and was made into a TV movie The Pastor's Wife.

[agricola]

She wasn't acquitted.

Yes, apparently it is better to murder your husband than to divorce him. But there was also an issue of financial problems - Mary had got herself deep in debt and was afraid to tell him about that.

She was sentenced to three years (but served just under a year, I believe, with five months credit for time served in jail awaiting trial - she was sentenced and out the same year) for voluntary manslaughter, and then was on probation, I think - lost custody of her daughters for a while - there was a case about that - the girls were with their paternal grandparents, who (naturally) objected to giving them back to the woman who murdered their son.
She did get them back but it was a mess dragged through the courts.

Part of her 'jail time' was in a mental health facility. There was a lot of criticism of the extremely light sentence (justifiably so).
She claimed 'abuse' but a lot of it was sexy clothes and constant verbal criticism - which is certainly BAD (if you aren't into sexy clothes) but a lot of people had a hard time with that as an excuse for murder. She claimed a psychotic break.
It is certainly possible that she was very afraid of him, and very afraid he would find out about how much money she had lost.

It was a big deal in the CoC community in Tennessee - the murdered Winkler was the son of one of the preachers at my old CoC (Dan Winkler) - my parents knew the family, but I didn't. After my time.

h**ps://murderpedia.org/female.W/w/winkler-mary.htm

h**ps://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/04/12/winkler.trial/

[longdistancerunner]

"She wasn't acquitted." Right she was not convicted of murder but convicted of the lesser included offense of voluntary manslaughter is the correct way to say it I think.

She had a very high powered defense attorney representing her, I can't remember how she financed him. Generally it was believed he was responsible for her not being convicted of murder which was viewed as a win for the defense.

As I remember it the papers didn't play up the issue of finances. From the testimony of neighbors and others it appeared the guy was really mean.

[DashRipRock]

I was disfellowshipped after I left my group and went to a 'progressive' church with classes and a dining hall . The preacher and other men signed a letter of withdrawal and even sent the thing where I had to sign for it .....What a joke they had known me for a few years and I still live at the same address. But at the time it did really sting and there were hurt feelings . It did open doors for me to have a much happier life so it wasn't all bad .
This was around 1987 . I didn't last very long with any of the CoCers after that incident and moved on later to a new faith . By the way one of the
elders who signed the scarlet letter of shame on me ..his daughter divorced and remarried and praise the Lord Jesus he saw the light to allow
divorced people back into the church . Amazing how that works sometimes .

[longdistancerunner]

I was disfellowshipped after I left my group and went to a 'progressive' church with classes and a dining hall . The preacher and other men signed a letter of withdrawal and even sent the thing where I had to sign for it .....What a joke they had known me for a few years and I still live at the same address. But at the time it did really sting and there were hurt feelings . It did open doors for me to have a much happier life so it wasn't all bad .
This was around 1987 . I didn't last very long with any of the CoCers after that incident and moved on later to a new faith . By the way one of the
elders who signed the scarlet letter of shame on me ..his daughter divorced and remarried and praise the Lord Jesus he saw the light to allow
divorced people back into the church . Amazing how that works sometimes .

Did the people at that Church actually shun you totally or did some stay in contact?

[DashRipRock]

One of the most famous disfellowship stories was in the early 80's in Oklahoma with the young woman named Marian Guinn. It made national news .
She sued the church and elders as I recall . They called her out publicly for "fornication" and she got a lawyer ....Oops !

h**ps://youtu.be/mn0FNuXAX9E There is a youtube video about her story on Phil Donahue way back when this happened .

"The tragic Collinsville church of Christ case"

Here is a post about it and there seems to be several .

https://ex-churchofchrist.com/SupportBoard/viewtopic.php?t=2529