A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
Scott wrote:Marriage to a non believer was frowned upon. They were using this as a recruiting tool. I assume once the girls were converted then marriage would be tolerated. We were expected to bring at least one non believer to Wednesday Bible study, male or female. Once you came alone for a few Wednesday's in a row then the whole tree and fruit thing would be taught. "If you are not bearing fruit then you must be a dead branch" "Dead branches will be pruned from the tree". This is bringing up some bad memories for me, I was always worried about not having anyone to bring.
This is not anything Christian. It's taking scripture and applying it in a way to make you feel not right.
John 15:4-5 (KJV)
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:4-5 (KJV)
Jesus is not talking about church attendance but rather cooperation. I would have major problems with that view. There are other similar verses. Jesus spoke in parables but his meaning is usually quite clear. There are other verses. Do read the context. The floor of the CoC is littered with such things pulled out of context or simply the opinions of man.
....But the shame cycle begins long before a brother or sister commits some form of “gross wrongdoing.” One of the goofier rites of passage a young Witness brother must endure is the dreaded Theocratic Ministry School talk condemning masturbation. As the saying goes, any 17-year-old male who says that he doesn’t, er, Pat his Robertson is either dysfunctional or lying.....Thus, it’s fairly safe to say that every time a young man is called up on stage to “scripturally” condemn this practice, a new hypocrite is made. While he and his friends may laugh about it at the time, giving such a talk to a mixed-gender crowd of all ages is mortifying and is often his first big taste of what it’s like to live in a shame-based religious system...
And then in the Shame-Anger section I found the discussion to be real and made sense of some things for me.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
klp wrote:must endure is the dreaded Theocratic Ministry School talk condemning masturbation. As the saying goes, any 17-year-old male who says that he doesn’t, er, Pat his Robertson is either dysfunctional or lying.....Thus, it’s fairly safe to say that every time a young man is called up on stage to “scripturally” condemn this practice, a new hypocrite is made.
I am not aware of much scripturally. You might say that you are comitting adultery in your heart. That is scriptually condemned. You might find someone who does not have sexual feelings but most guys are hard wired for sex of some kind. It's better to get the sexual tension off your plate. While not as good as sex it does give some relief and relatively is harmless. Marriage was a blessing in that way for me.
Last edited by ena on Sun May 03, 2015 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
My whole problem with the whole thing is when "religious leaders" point this sin out like they don't commit the same sin in their own hearts.
They don't approach the subject with any humility or they need to approach the subject by confessing their own sin first.
Even if they are married are they telling me when they see a nice looking girl that the thought doesn't even cross their mind?
I have been married now for about 25 years give or take. I have never physically cheated on my wife and truth be said I have never had physical sex with anyone but my wife unless you want to include myself. But I have cheated on my wife uncountable times in my mind. Last night I went out to dinner with my wife and my 17 year old son. There were two nice looking Girls in their early 20's. I looked at them and the thought crossed my mind. These girls could be my daughters but the thought still crossed my mind. Would I actually do it, I don't think so but trully I couldn't say for sure depending on the situation. I don't know if I could live with myself or face my wife if I did. But the bottom line is it is there and this I cannot escape, God knows it regardless of what I say or act out as in Church or anywhere. It is just plainly the truth. So who am I to impose this same burden on my sons or anyone else for that matter. Do I want to follow Jesus, I would say yes. Can I follow Jesus, No.
klp wrote:must endure is the dreaded Theocratic Ministry School talk condemning masturbation. As the saying goes, any 17-year-old male who says that he doesn’t, er, Pat his Robertson is either dysfunctional or lying.....Thus, it’s fairly safe to say that every time a young man is called up on stage to “scripturally” condemn this practice, a new hypocrite is made.
I am not aware of much scripturally. You might say that you are omitting adultery in your heart. That is scriptually condemned. You might find someone who does not have sexual feelings but most guys are hard wired for sex of some kind. It's better to get the sexual tension off your plate. While not as good as sex it does give some relief and relatively is harmless. Marriage was a blessing in that way for me.
but but but....
When you are a young boy masturbating the way around that is always think of the women you are jerking off to as as your lawfully wedded wife. There! No fornication, no adultery!
Last edited by B.H. on Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
We were instructed to date/marry within the church. And it was ironic concerning friends. They wanted us to bring as many of those heathen to services as we could. And if you did bring a friend no sooner did their butt hit the pew they got preached at.
It feels so exhilarating to be able to read whatever "trash" I want to read with no guilt. I just finished a book on male sexuality while visiting my mother. I told myself that if she catches me with the word "penis" all over the Kindle page, I would tell her that I've hit a second puberty and she shouldn't be so controlling! Now that I'm past the average CoC age of marriage, I'm allowed to know about this stuff!
At the same time they were pressuring us to date "unsaved" girls and bring them to Church. I was shy with girls but they kept pressuring me that I should be on the hunt for girls that I meet at School and be bringing them to Bible study or Church. But then at the same time somehow I was going to curb my 21 year old hormones. This all just came back to me now. I can only guess that they were trying to build the Church membership. I remember them talking about the tree and bearing fruit and we needed to bear fruit by bringing people into the church. I remember thinking that if by chance I was able to get one of these girls to come to Church with me I was really going to be more focused of bearing fruit "with" them.
Oh good lord. What a hilarious catch-22. *headdesk*
It feels so exhilarating to be able to read whatever "trash" I want to read with no guilt.
This! I already know my kids are not going to have the same sex-based strictures/guilt that we grew up with. It's totally normal stuff.
