Shrubbery wrote:I've not heard the change in the Lord's Prayer. My NI church just doesn't say it. They think it's vain repetition to say the same prayer over and over. But yes, they will say that that part of the prayer isn't correct for today, since the kingdom is already here. At the time Jesus supposedly said it, the kingdom wasn't here yet, so it's ok for him to say it.
As far as the personal relationship with God... As I'm studying the OT right now via the Yale lectures Cootie has posted, it seems that the Jewish nation didn't have a personal (individual) relationship with God. They had a national relationship with God. It really was very different from Christianity. Maybe Agricola could comment better on this topic, as I'm just learning about it.
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Yes the attitude is very different, although the relationship IS 'parental' (God our Father' is a common prayer phrase), this is a God who is also King, who makes rules and commands obedience. God's covenant is with the whole people, rather than 'one on one'. But at the same time, people DO work on a 'personal relationship', but don't typically use that terminology ('sounds Christian') and don't expect the same kind of thing as Christians might, out of their 'personal relationship'.
Plus there is a still a HUGE amount of 'corporate Israel' (the whole people) to every daily prayer service and all holidays, and a VERY common topic of discussion will always be if this thing or that person or some event is or isn't 'good for the Jews'.
Lots of feelings of community and connection, even with Jewish communities overseas. There's a real feeling of connectedness and commonality - probably why we ALWAYS see a lot of American Jews getting really mad about some action of the official Israeli rabbinate (which has government authority in Israel) even if the American's never actually plan to move to Israel.
Most Jews will readily describe themselves as part of a 'Nation', or a 'People' or a 'Tribe' and I can't count how many times I hear statements like that, or saying 'all Israel are responsible one for the other' (usually in Hebrew*). I like it, actually. I like the continuity of it, and the communal aspect of it, and the traditions that are 'because that's what we do' to answer 'why do you...?'
*Kol Israel arevim zeh l'zeh' - it's in the Talmud at least twice, and it's even a FOLK SONG.
Somebody a few days ago out on the internets was talking about rights and privileges, and another person in a Jewish forum noted (correctly) that Judaism doesn't talk about 'rights' at all (as in the Consitution? unalienable rights bestowed by the Creator?) but is all about obligations.
Interconnected obligations to other people is what creates a social bond and keeps a community stable. If we have a 'right' in Judaism, it is the 'right' to be obligated to behave properly.
Note that, in the Torah, one of the major punishments for serious offenses was 'karet' - to be 'cut off' from the people - in effect, to be cast out, exiled, removed from the group. Judaism has no tradition of the holy HERMIT, and has never considered celibacy to be a desirable or admirable lifestyle. Life is meant to be lived in the community, with people.
This is probably more suited to New Paths, because I've written a long answer, but here it is anyway.