Heaven and Hell, or where do we go from here?

[chrisso99]

In the CoC as a kid I never was very scared of hell, but I sure as hell was scared of heaven. Even as a young kid it sounded so boring. Just a bunch of crusty old CoCers sitting around singing hymns for eternity? No getting to hang out with any famous people from history unless they happened to be CoC (which non were)? No thanks. Even the more liberal views of heaven don't really seem that appealing to me. Eternity - in any state- doesn't seem appealing. Good things with no bad things? How would you know what was good? I read a true (some controversies about the details exist, but generally consistent with what is known about north Korea) story (Escape from Camp 14, good book, quick read http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Re ... 0143122916) about a North Korean who was born in a prison slave labor camp who escaped. When he first escaped from the camp into some North Korean village he was amazed at how "free," "well-fed," and "rich" the north Korean villagers were. That perspective flipped on its head would be just as valid. An incredibly rich modern American who was forced to go live a middle class Bulgarian lifestyle would probably think they were living comparable to a North Korean slave laborer when in reality they still have it pretty good compared to at least half the world, and almost everyone who ever lived compared to history.

[agricola]

The coc 'heaven' was a pretty bland place, it seemed to me. 'A city foursquare' with stone and gold streets - and no trees anywhere, no grass, no way to get out (all was inside walls - sounds like prison!) and worst of all, our dog wasn't allowed to go there! No animals, no living plants, no grass, no trees, and only coc people, and the only activity apparently was singing hymns. Period. Eternal church service, in a windowless auditorium, without (apparently) even a sermon to liven things up.

I didn't really want to go, but the alternative option was worse, and there was no third choice.

[illuminator]

I don't get the whole "waiting" theme. Hebrews 9:27 declares, “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” But this idea of waiting implies two judgments.

[GuitarHero]

There's this poster on the dialog board ('the other side') who is a long term coc guy, who keeps claiming that 'no coc teaches that! I never heard that!' (the teaching that only coc'ers and just the good ones, will get to heaven). He's also very good at claiming that a personal account (like for instance, me) of such a teaching is unreliable because it is 'just one' coc and not all of them. I'm pretty fed up with the guy, to tell the truth.

I've heard that a number of times. And I feel like they know they're lying. It's almost always disingenuous. They say "well I never said that," but then when you press them, the only way to get into heaven is to do exactly what their church says do, and they pretty much rule out other churches.

So glad I don't deal with that nonsense anymore.

[chrisso99]

Most CoCers won't come right out and say that only CoCers will get to heaven. Instead they say that only the people who follow a doctrine precisely mirroring CoC doctrine can be sure in their salvation. It's the obnoxious passive aggressive way of saying the same thing.

[KLP]

The Cofcer is just making a "technically correct" argument on semantics...it is a form of deception and a refusal to engage honestly. In fact the statement itself may or may not be true (about cofcers being only ones to go to Heaven) but to pretend the notion is not "in play" in some for or fashion is dishonest. You can pretty much pick any cofc congregation and at some point in the past there was a "split" over something. And at some point those "other people at the other congregation" are never engaged or considered again...these other folks even have the name CofC yet they must be abandoned to their error....how much more is this the case for Baptists, Methodists, DoC, RCC, LDS, JW, etc. Go check the tract rack at most any congregation and you will find one on the need to use an authorized name like CofC and you will find various booklets on the error of infant baptism, faith only, and several specific denominations.

[agricola]

You are so right.
This guy - if I use an example based on personal experience plus seven years plus 'talking' to people on this board, he says it doesn't count because it is just anecdote, and then he wants BCV.

If I post BCV supporting (and not just me, but plenty of others as well will get sucked in to his demand to see BCV), THEN he says they aren't relevant!

Well you tell me: if he demands to know where we get the idea that 'love' is a commandment from God, and we give him like, TWENTY or so quotes that say EXACTLY THAT ('the first and greatest commandment is 'love the Lord your God' and the second is like unto it 'love your neighbor'), how, HOW I ask you! Can he say these verses ARE NOT RELEVANT????

I don't know how teresa does it. She is almost NEVER mad or even frustrated. I couldn't do it.

[chrisso99]

Well to be fair, I think (the poster referred to) idea is not that LOVE isn't a commandment but that OBEDIENCE to the bible is the most important and essential element of love. It's a stupid premise that says some pretty sad things about his worldview (and some even sadder things about the state of his relationships with people), but there is a certain sense of warped logic to it once you understand his premise.

Modhat (agricola): he shall remain unnamed

[agricola]

So he is somehow skipping over the parts that say 'the first and greatest'? I am only SOMEWHAT sorry for him, because he has had enough time and you would think enough life experience to see through that garbage, or at least put some of it a bit lower down the list of important things. Plenty of coc people DO understand that their particular/peculiar special topics are - in the grand scheme of things - secondary matters.

[illuminator]

True story. Today, a woman in my apartment building has a brother who was in an accident, not expected to live. Her coc "family" came to comfort her and instead had the woman in hysterics, taking several people to calm her down. Because her brother was not a member of the coc, and not saved, he was going to hell, and it was ... get ready for it ... her fault! She condemned her own brother to hell because she had a lifetime to convert him, and didn't. Wait! There's more! Because of her "sin", she's going to hell, too! Needless to these people were asked to leave the building (all this took place in the lobby) and told by management not to come back. I literally had to go vomit.