Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

Ivy wrote:Does anyone remember them changing words in songs because they weren't scriptural?

I remember someone saying that "Have a Little Talk with Jesus" was unscriptural, because you couldn't really do that.
Also because it says something about a "little prayer wheel turning", and that wasn't scriptural.

They also changed a phrase in Amazing Grace.....from "that saved a wretch like me" to "that saved someone like me".....because "I'm not a wretch".

And they changed "When we all get to Heaven" to "When the SAVED get to heaven". They didn't want anyone in the assembly to
mistakenly think they were going to heaven if they weren't.

You can't make this stuff up.

It is damn infuriating to me.....This pervasive judgmentalism is really more an anathema IMO than anything else they could do....they don't even know the story behind "Amazing Grace"....or who wrote it. It was written by John Newton, one of the world's foremost slave traders who, in coming to faith, gave up the slave trade and lived out his years in thankfulness to God's grace and mercy to him.....so why in the hell would he not feel like a wretch? and that says it so well for each and every one of us....we indeed are wretches...we wretch everyday, we face worry, anxiety, survival, hatred, failure after failure, in short we face a life of misery....and my prayer every night is thanking God for having had mercy and to continue having mercy on a wretch like me and on us all.....

I also know of a CoC congregation that changed the song Amazing Grace. They changed the line "the hour I first believed" to "the hour I first obeyed". So now they are trusting in their own human effort and performance, instead of trusting grace. How sad.

Opie wrote:I also know of a CoC congregation that changed the song Amazing Grace. They changed the line "the hour I first believed" to "the hour I first obeyed". So now they are trusting in their own human effort and performance, instead of trusting grace. How sad.

Yep, as if anyone can "obey" him or herself into Christ with his or her imperfect obedience...the only obedience that can get you through the door is perfect obedience and that has already been done for us, on our behalf...the reason therefore why we surrender, give it all up, and place our complete trust in Him (the obedience "of faith") to get us into the club, not trusting in our pitiful shortfall attempts at five steps or any other "steps"....to include, I might add some delusional concept of living "faithfully" (perfectly) the rest of our lives....only He did the perfect life thing...

Opie wrote:I also know of a CoC congregation that changed the song Amazing Grace. They changed the line "the hour I first believed" to "the hour I first obeyed". So now they are trusting in their own human effort and performance, instead of trusting grace. How sad.

Yes, absolutely!! I had forgotten that one, Opie.

Side track - or maybe 'back to the OP' -
I just ran across an evangelical post on Patheos talking about how wrong the 'cessationists' are.

I didn't exactly READ the article, but isn't that what we are talking about? The coc is 'cessationist' in that the HS 'ceased' behaving and got all written down?

I think.
I should probably read the article, but seriously, I'm not that interested.

The holy spirit is alive and well. It cannot be seen or experienced in the Church of Christ. My spiritual growth was stunted in the CoC. I am not talking about tongues. There a many gifts and not all are listed. ! Corinthians !3-15. I believe this is a undisputed work by Paul and predates the Gospels. I do not know that Paul ever saw one gospel. He claimed to have met Jesus in the spirit. He did not meet Jesus in the flesh. Who called him an apostle? It turns out that Paul called himself an apostle to the gentiles. I have no argument with that. Peter called him brother in 2 Peter. I do not believe that Peter could read and write. He and Paul were dead before 68 CE. Rome burned in 64 CE and Nero blamed Christians. He used to dip Christians in oil and burn them alive after all they made screaming candles. Christians blamed Nero for burning Rome. There was a great persecution at that time.

I never agreed Zechariah 13 applied to cessation of New Testament gifts. I believe it was talking about the supposed prophets of idols and false gods.

B.H. wrote:I never agreed Zechariah 13 applied to cessation of New Testament gifts. I believe it was talking about the supposed prophets of idols and false gods.

Coc usually uses 1 Corinthians 13:8,10 to argue cessation of spiritual gifts.

Shrubbery wrote:

B.H. wrote:I never agreed Zechariah 13 applied to cessation of New Testament gifts. I believe it was talking about the supposed prophets of idols and false gods.

Coc usually uses 1 Corinthians 13:8,10 to argue cessation of spiritual gifts.

True, but I have read them use Zechariah 13 to prove I Cor 13 was talking about the ending of special spiritual gifts. I Cor 13 may be saying that (theoretically speaking) but I do not think Zechariah is talking about that.

B.H. wrote:True, but I have read them use Zechariah 13 to prove I Cor 13 was talking about the ending of special spiritual gifts. I Cor 13 may be saying that (theoretically speaking) but I do not think Zechariah is talking about that.

Then they jump to dual meaning of OT passages, where they meant one thing to the Israelites and have a second meaning for Christians. Like the prophecies and such. Which at that point, when you start saying any prophecy can have multiple meanings, you can make it mean whatever you want and apply to whatever you want.