Obsession with Baptists

[Cootie Brown]

My mother thinks that the Catholic Church was originally the CofC, and then it got corrupted and became the Catholic Church.

Well, of course. I thought everybody knew that.

[flawed]

My mother thinks that the Catholic Church was originally the CofC, and then it got corrupted and became the Catholic Church.

This what I was always told growing up also.

[FinallyFree]

But don't most Protestant churches hold the view that they have the correct teachings that were corrupted by the Catholic Church? (Although they don't say they are the only ones going to heaven.) I think that is what being a protestant is all about. Of course, I was told the CofC was not protestant.
Cootie, doesn't the Baptist Church believe they are the New Testament Church?

[Cootie Brown]

But don't most Protestant churches hold the view that they have the correct teachings that were corrupted by the Catholic Church? (Although they don't say they are the only ones going to heaven.) I think that is what being a protestant is all about. Of course, I was told the CofC was not protestant.
Cootie, doesn't the Baptist Church believe they are the New Testament Church?

I was Southern Baptist for 12 years my wife was a cradle Baptist. The only group I'm personally aware of that is into the one true Church thing is the c of c.

I think pretty much all the Protestant groups accept other denominations as Christian as long as they follow & worship Jesus. They don't see the differences in doctrinal issues as having anything to do with salvation.

A quick story. My wife is on the evangelism committee at the UMC we attend. New members fall into that category, so we attended the New Members dinner yesterday. Each new member told what UMC they were transferring from or what denomination they were coming from. Most of the new members were coming out of the Baptist Church.

When it came time for my wife to introduce herself to the new members she said she came out of the Baptist Church. I just smiled. On the way home I asked her about that. She replied, "I do not want anyone to know we ever had anything to do with the c of c." I said okay and added, "I'm pretty sure that cat is eventually going to crawl out of the bag babe." She replied, "Probably but I'll deal with it when or if that day comes."

[KLP]

My mother thinks that the Catholic Church was originally the CofC, and then it got corrupted and became the Catholic Church.

Well...sort of, it kind of has to be something like that even if that is not a very precise description.

By definition there was an original church form defined....but it grew, matured, and changed during the Apostles tenure.
That the RCC (or what became RCC/Orthodox) continued to change after the Apostles is not questioned. But was the change apostasy or approved is the question? Who knows, maybe a celibate priesthood offering sacraments and managing awesome/lavishly decorated cathedrals was all part of the ideal Jesus was dying for.

Whether the CofC (in some version today) has reconstituted the same "original" church is not knowable...certainly it is the intent and hope of many. But it remains to be seen if the "original", as variously derived from the epistles, is even a valid goal. All one can do is determine which version of Christianity they think is more probable and to do the best they can.

Catholics think protestants are apostates and confused and not in full communion with the body of Christ...and will need more purification in purgatory
At best....Cofcers think Catholics are perhaps well intentioned (in some cases) but are almost assuredly to be told they were never Christians on the day of judgement.

[gordie91]

But don't most Protestant churches hold the view that they have the correct teachings that were corrupted by the Catholic Church? (Although they don't say they are the only ones going to heaven.) I think that is what being a protestant is all about.

They may not so much any more in the 21st century but it most assuredly was the case with Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and all those that followed until about the 1940's. The change occurred slowly and since about the time of Billy Graham doctrinal issues don't appear to mean much except the staunch opposition to baptism for the remission of sins. For about the last 100 years of the 500 years of protestantism things have changed in a way that most people will just accept differences and a pretty much generalized Christian message of being a good person, whereas Calvin and his teachings would produce Puritans of which I am confident, CoC'ers have a long way to go to be like the Puritans.

Reading the writings of the above mentioned and the next wave of the Magisterial Reformation (No separation of church and state) one would find out criteria for establishing who is going to heaven. All modern churches, especially in the US, are very well rooted in the protestant theology of these leaders, but because of our cultural pluralism and ever more secular society people seem to just want every one to be nice.

There are some of different denominations that are still quite rabid in their teaching and in passing judgement. Browse the internet to see the response by some in reaction to Hank Hanegraaf The Bible Answer Man's conversion to Orthodoxy. It ain't just the CoC that thinks they are the only ones going to heaven.

[KLP]

Hank Hanegraaf The Bible Answer Man used to be on the radio during my drive time...but now I just listen to Catholic Radio...Kresta in the Afternoon or Catholic Answers live. It is fairly entertaining and thought provoking on occasion. I enjoy mainly to hear how they gently answer in a pretty sad and stressful case described by the caller. Sometimes they have some good summary info. The hate Luther and I am glad the 500th is sort of over now because I was tired of hearing that.

Hanegraaf hated that "swoon" theory and he was hard on Christian Scientist and other whacky groups. And Hank had it in for water baptism. But you can't leave behind Sola Scriptura in joining Orthodoxy and yet still be on board with the crown that believes in the absolute authority of the Bible.

[gordie91]

Never knew who Hank was until this spring. So I really do not know what his angle was or brand of theology. The things I have heard from him since all the hub bub appears to be fairly Orthodox, however it does seem strange to me that he has kept some remnants, websites and associations, of his past since converting.

It does seem to me to be over the top all the vitriolic statements and misrepresentations of Orthodoxy by the "enlightened" protestant bloggers and ministers. I see a certain level of insecurity and maybe fear, I think, seeing someone they revered and respected for his bible knowledge go to the dark side. Also, reading and hearing some of the characterizations and accusations they toss out is eerily reminiscent of things I have heard in my CoC past.

I have enjoyed some of the Catholic programs, but in recent years I haven't heard or seen much from Catholics. It was interesting and spurred me on back in the day when I was questioning my upbringing in the CoC.

[KLP]

BTW, on Catholic Answers this week there was a call about is it right to support the Salvation Army.

They made it clear that while it is well intentioned to want to give to Salvation Army that it is something that Catholics should never do. First off, Salvation Army is a religious organization and church but it has no real church function. Salvation Army teaches that baptism is not needed. And it has no priesthood to offer sacraments so no marriages could be valid (other than being a valid natural law marriage).

Therefore it is a serious and harmful error that is being promoted and no Catholic should give to the Salvation Army and especially not since there are so many Catholic charities that could use that donation.

wow...flashback to childhood...my parents ranted and railed against Salvation Army in the car/house and also my did from the pulpit

[gordie91]

I can understand them not wanting to support the Salvation Army since they have a long list of their own charities without ever needing to address the doctrinal issues.

Now the CoC on the other hand, has no rational reason to prevent individual support since it is the purview of the individual and the "true" CoC doesn't have a charity organization for insiders much less outsiders (outside the true Church that is). The only course available is to shame the members who do support heretical organizations and to preach a lot of nasty sermons that proof-text why it is wrong to feed and clothe the poor and unfortunate in our society outside the confines of individual action or through a secular organization. I remember those very rants as well.