If you could change the coC...

[love]

If you had the ability to make changes to the fundamental coC what would they be?

I would seek for the local elders to support a forum, outside the worsip service, to allow an open discussion on issues that address seemingly traditional beleifs and practices that are defended from the prespective of "necessary inference" as oppoosed to direct command and apolistic example".

[love]

They need to start praying towards Mecca and having their scripture readings from the Quran.


Other than that, the best thing to do would be for them to go from having services to being defunct congregations.

this seems to be a response embeded with no desire to change by being outside the realmn of Christinanity and not to helpful to accomplish change

[B.H.]

They need to start praying towards Mecca and having their scripture readings from the Quran.


Other than that, the best thing to do would be for them to go from having services to being defunct congregations.

this seems to be a response embeded with no desire to change by being outside the realmn of Christinanity and not to helpful to accomplish change

My dear love,

Why settle for half measures? If you want the CoC to change you might as well aim for them to adopt the whole truth and not be still stuck in following the Satanic doctrines found in the Bible.

[love]

I believe to change any institionual organization, includidng the COC consertavives models is from within, as opposed to standing out side and throwing stones. some of the responses I have read so far seem a bit radical, if one is sincerely interested in achieving change in or to any degree. It is obvious that someof us have been hurt very deeply, when I review the post questions and responses. Excuse the naivity, since i am a new member. I will get upstream soon enough. thought you might want to hear how the post and responses are to a "newbie"

[love]

Who is the member who keeps wanting respondents to **** off? What is your real issue that you can't be more to the point than the use of such ugly and unnessary retorts, and dear whomever you are, I am not interested in "baiting anyone", I am hear to listen and learn where I can eventually chart my own destiny. Not to cast barbs.

[love]

Also, your responses are not helping me in my quest, so no thanks for any future responses.

[KLP]

Love,

I just do not think change is possible...at least for the Non-Institutional branch. Many of us tried changing or changing the focus while on the inside. It only brings terrible conditions for both parties. If the congregations were truly autonomous and independent then it might be possible to refocus or change the strident nature and characteristics. But because of the "brotherhood" of preachers, internet, Meetings, colleges, and magazines it is impossible for individual(s) at one place to change that place because of brotherhood "policing". IMO.

There is a great fear of following false doctrine and losing ones salvation. There is a great fear of being labeled "liberal" or "unsound". There is a great fear of not being welcomed and equals with other congregations. There is a great desire seemingly to be the first to find some false doctrine or heresy and become the expert on it and to be at ground zero so that you can make your reputation as faithful and standing strong for the faith.

So the topic is always framed by those wanting to resist change as "What exactly are we doing wrong?" Is it wrong to take LS, sing without instruments, baptize believers, teach the Bible, or take up a collection? What exactly are we doing that is "wrong"? So it is judged on the technical aspects of performance and mimic or what is found in the NT letters. There is no place for the spiritual aspect or emotional aspects. If you say that something is lacking then you are told it is only lacking for you because this is a "spiritual feast" being put out 3 times a week and there must be something wrong with you.

So IMO, change of the "organization" itself is not possible. And frankly, if they want to be that way then that is fine, I am not going to force them to change. But I think something is very much missing and I think the emphasis on product brand and defining all others as wrong is the wrong emphasis. So I go my way and they can go their way. I think some aspects of CofC are Bible based and the most consistent in logical terms. It is not all bad...but some of the stuff is just way off. But there is no way to change the organization at one local congregation when there is so much brotherhood policing energy that can be brought to bear. There is just a lot invested in demanding and insisting that the CofC is the same today as the 1st century. So you get a little emphasis changed and all is getting better and then people move in/out and a new preacher is hired or some preacher comes in for a "Gospel Meeting" and it just all goes back to what it was...effecting real and permanent change is just not possible IMO.

This is why I think there are these summer Bible camps, colleges, singing school weeks, lectureships, and other non-local events. The emotional things that are missing and precluded from existing in the local congregation are greatly desired and can only be had in these other settings because of how the organization is setup.

[Porcupine]

klp is right on. Change is not possible. What are the odds that a cofC to have a choir.... IM...... women song leader... women waiting on the table..let alone to have a elder admit that he drinks or has family issues. It can only be a cofC if you follow Paul's letters to a T. And then the cofC picks and chooses what rules it wants to take literally. Paul didn't tell Timothy to take wine for his stomach sake... it was grape juice... Women should not have short hair ( not sure how long?) and it is a disgrace for men to have long hair (not sure how long). Make melody in your heart... and God hates pianos and organ music... the cofC is not a denomination....we are the only ones that are going to heaven....

The list goes on. If you change the rules you are no longer a cofC http://cconline.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=51223

This is on the front door of my old cofC. Do you really think that they will change?

[lvmaus]

Love,

I just do not think change is possible...at least for the Non-Institutional branch. Many of us tried changing or changing the focus while on the inside. It only brings terrible conditions for both parties. If the congregations were truly autonomous and independent then it might be possible to refocus or change the strident nature and characteristics. But because of the "brotherhood" of preachers, internet, Meetings, colleges, and magazines it is impossible for individual(s) at one place to change that place because of brotherhood "policing". IMO.

Appreciate your comments; very well stated.

For years I basically tried to block out all the garbage spewed from the pulpiteers, elders, and teachers until it became absolutely impossible to swallow another morsel of their unscriptural garbage. These churches lay unbearable burdens on their members, and refuse to accept anyone unless they are willing to sell their soul to the churches Pharisaical demands ... unfortunately, change is a pipe dream.

[Moogy]

Who is the member who keeps wanting respondents to **** off? What is your real issue that you can't be more to the point than the use of such ugly and unnessary retorts, and dear whomever you are, I am not interested in "baiting anyone", I am hear to listen and learn where I can eventually chart my own destiny. Not to cast barbs.

Just ignore BH. He's like a mascot troll here. He likes to stir things up, but he is actually a good guy when you get to know him. And FYI, he really is Muslim. I do wish he would leave out the f***. I don't like that language.