Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

@Lerk I have only encountered Wilson once. He seemed to not like to venture out of his Southern comfort zone and I was a Mid-Westerner.

Here is an interesting note: the only guitar lesson I have ever received was from Connie Adams. He and Weldon Warnock and a couple of other folk had a bluegrass radio show back in the day when they were all at Florida College. They thought about striking out on the professional circuit and decided that God's calling was more important.

Later, Weldon went on to be labeled a heretic because he espoused Ron Halbrook's 'mental divorce' position. My eyes still glaze over and my mind fades when these guys start ranting about the various theories of divorce and remarriage. Weldon was never disowned by the folk in the OH/WV area though, as he was by some others. Local churches had meetings with him long after his eyesight had failed and he was running on fumes. Of course, no one ever came forward. . .

Opie wrote:A few years ago I read that the lady who wrote "Just As I Am", originally wrote it as a song about coming to the table for Holy Communion. Apparently the Baptists and the CoC liked it a lot better as an altar call/invitation song.

Interesting thought. I have only used it as an invitation. It actually talks about the way God sees humans with all their imperfections. You just learned from the sermon that a single unconfessed sin will send you to Hell. I did not learn anything worthwhile in the CoC. Best training in paranoia ever.

I don't worry about divorce. Some in the CoC believe in a Christian divorce. If two people are not content to live together. Let them separate. No amount of condemnation will while change it. The Church to frequently takes on the mantle of God and judges one as the sinner. That may not be true. To often Political power within the Church comes into play. So one problem becomes a huge blow up. There is already more than enough hurt to go around to start with.

Shane R wrote:@Lerk I have only encountered Wilson once. He seemed to not like to venture out of his Southern comfort zone and I was a Mid-Westerner.

Here is an interesting note: the only guitar lesson I have ever received was from Connie Adams. He and Weldon Warnock and a couple of other folk had a bluegrass radio show back in the day when they were all at Florida College. They thought about striking out on the professional circuit and decided that God's calling was more important.

Later, Weldon went on to be labeled a heretic because he espoused Ron Halbrook's 'mental divorce' position. My eyes still glaze over and my mind fades when these guys start ranting about the various theories of divorce and remarriage. Weldon was never disowned by the folk in the OH/WV area though, as he was by some others. Local churches had meetings with him long after his eyesight had failed and he was running on fumes. Of course, no one ever came forward. . .

Connie Adams had a story about being mistaken in a barber shop for Porter Waggoner.

Have you ever seen Jeff Belknap's "Mental Divorce Website"? http://www.mentaldivorce.com/ Looks like it hasn't been updated in 11 years, but he has listserv posts, articles, and email exchanges going back to the 1980s on the subject. It was NUTS!

Opie wrote:A few years ago I read that the lady who wrote "Just As I Am", originally wrote it as a song about coming to the table for Holy Communion. Apparently the Baptists and the CoC liked it a lot better as an altar call/invitation song.

It makes sense for the Lord's Supper!

I'm celebrating 2 years of being a non-songleader this month.

Lerk wrote:Have you ever seen Jeff Belknap's "Mental Divorce Website"? http://www.mentaldivorce.com/ Looks like it hasn't been updated in 11 years, but he has listserv posts, articles, and email exchanges going back to the 1980s on the subject. It was NUTS!

That MDR thing in the cofc has caused many more problems than it has resolved, IMHO. I have seen fragile people go over the edge because of the mental gymnastics / feelings of pure hopelessness involved.

Ivy wrote: That MDR thing in the cofc has caused many more problems than it has resolved, IMHO. I have seen fragile people go over the edge because of the mental gymnastics / feelings of pure hopelessness involved.

Agreed. The Bible does not cover every situation. Trying to force a relationship in to a Bible mold does require some mental gymnastics. I had a CoC friend refer to his Christian divorce. I had been away for so long that it did not compute. What he meant was that he remained celibate until his ex remarried. She was then the adulterer so he could remarry while remaining in the good graces of the church. My heart goes out to those that remain in unsatisfying relationships for appearances. You cannot fool God. People are much easier.

ena wrote:

Ivy wrote: That MDR thing in the cofc has caused many more problems than it has resolved, IMHO. I have seen fragile people go over the edge because of the mental gymnastics / feelings of pure hopelessness involved.

Agreed. The Bible does not cover every situation. Trying to force a relationship in to a Bible mold does require some mental gymnastics. I had a CoC friend refer to his Christian divorce. I had been away for so long that it did not compute. What he meant was that he remained celibate until his ex remarried. She was then the adulterer so he could remarry while remaining in the good graces of the church. My heart goes out to those that remain in unsatisfying relationships for appearances. You cannot fool God. People are much easier.

Most of the people I know in the NI-CoC don't think even that is allowed anymore. They say that the divorce has to have been because of adultery. That's what that whole "mental divorce" kerfuffle is all about. It's totally nuts. (Some even go as far as to say that the "innocent party" has to be the one who files for divorce. If the adulterer files and the innocent party doesn't do something proactive, then they didn't do the "putting away" and they aren't free to remarry. So what they're doing is taking the principle (innocent spouse can remarry) and making it procedural (the passage only talks about the innocent party putting away the guilty one, so it must transpire that way).

If there's any justification for what Jesus said about divorce in Matthew 19, it would be that it might have protected women from being abandoned.

Lerk wrote:If there's any justification for what Jesus said about divorce in Matthew 19, it would be that it might have protected women from being abandoned.

Lerk, I had never thought of it that way, but what you say makes perfect sense. Jesus would have wanted women to be protected from going into poverty or worse after having been "put away" for a frivolous reason; he would have wanted people to think long and hard about it before taking any action.

Lerk wrote:

Shane R wrote:Have you ever seen Jeff Belknap's "Mental Divorce Website"? http://www.mentaldivorce.com/ Looks like it hasn't been updated in 11 years, but he has listserv posts, articles, and email exchanges going back to the 1980s on the subject. It was NUTS!

I am very familiar with that website. I can't recall ever meeting Jeff Belknap, but I've dined with Ron Halbrook, one of his primary foils. There was a party that tried hard to run Bill Cavender's reputation into the ground prior to his death. I met Bill a few times and thought he was a genuinely holy man. I find the whole mental divorce controversy stupid to a degree that boggles the mind.

I attended the first GOT lectures back in 2004? Most of the sessions were based on the MDR question and specifically the mental divorce controversy. No one wanted to take into account the situation on the ground, so to speak. It was all philosophical BS that totally disregarded factors like state law and intention. But most striking was the lack of any discussion of the possibility of forgiveness in these situations. It is expected in CoC culture that a divorce will happen as soon as infidelity is discovered.

At those same lectures I went up to the mic during the open forum and told the audience that the homosexual issue would be a topic of discussion in the next few years. No one wanted to hear that. It was around the time of DOMA and everyone thought the future would be hunky-dory. Wow, was I prophetic?!?

Shane R wrote:There was a party that tried hard to run Bill Cavender's reputation into the ground prior to his death. I met Bill a few times and thought he was a genuinely holy man.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Bill Cavender caused a lot of strife in Port Arthur, TX. In his day, he published a lot of the same sort of divisive stuff on paper that Belknap has done online. I could give you some specific stories but there's no point in it.