Those outside The Church
Those outside The Church
Did anyone ever experience, as a child, knowing that others outside of the church gossiped about your parents "strange religion" or odd, peculiar beliefs? People in the community, your neighbors, etc.
Re: Those outside The Church
I took a history of religion course in Jr. college, and I remember the professor brought up the coc. He laughed as he said "they think they're the only ones going to heaven!" This guy had a wealth of knowledge, and I wondered why would such an intelligent man laugh at the coc because I was still drinking the coc kool aid. looking back I find it interesting that all he could do is laugh at the coc because of their views.
Re: Those outside The Church
Practically everyone in our social circle was in the church too. As a little kid, I felt sorry for all those lost folks. A little older, and I was amazed at how little even the grownups 'knew' about 'being a Christian' and 'the Bible' (because they didn't drop verses at the drop of a hat).
By early to mid-teens, it was lonely, because I couldn't do the things all the other kids did. AFAIK, they probably felt sorry for me, but I don't remember noticing that. I don't remember being NOTICED, which suited me fine.
I was in grad school before I met people who didn't go to church on Sunday, AND not only did they NOT GO (sin!!), they didn't even belong to a church they were staying home FROM! It was a revelation.
then I moved out west, and discovered that the coc denomination is barely even heard of, much less known well. And when people asked and I mentioned a couple of distinguishing features (no instrumental music, Lord's supper every Sunday) they mostly looked baffled. And if I explained a little of the 'theological doctrine', people look mildly horrified, and look at me all compassionate, like I grew up in the foster system or some such: you poor child.
By early to mid-teens, it was lonely, because I couldn't do the things all the other kids did. AFAIK, they probably felt sorry for me, but I don't remember noticing that. I don't remember being NOTICED, which suited me fine.
I was in grad school before I met people who didn't go to church on Sunday, AND not only did they NOT GO (sin!!), they didn't even belong to a church they were staying home FROM! It was a revelation.
then I moved out west, and discovered that the coc denomination is barely even heard of, much less known well. And when people asked and I mentioned a couple of distinguishing features (no instrumental music, Lord's supper every Sunday) they mostly looked baffled. And if I explained a little of the 'theological doctrine', people look mildly horrified, and look at me all compassionate, like I grew up in the foster system or some such: you poor child.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Those outside The Church
I find most often that people laugh at ideas of others in order to marginalize and disparage them. I can find no obvious uplifting or positive attribution to laughing at the faith, culture, or values of others.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Re: Those outside The Church
No me neither. But I think the laughter was just surprise and incredulity, and not 'making fun' laughter. Some of the coc doctrines seemed so strange to other people, that they laughed from the 'surprise' of it. Laughing was actually rare - mostly people look very sorry for me. I'd just as soon make it funny.
I've read some 'growing up X' stories (growing up LDS, growing up JW, growing up Fundamentalist Baptist) and most people do their best to make their story humorous. If it didn't have an element of humor in it, it would just be too horrible to think of, I guess. Coc doesn't even do 'cult' terribly well though, so there aren't a whole lot of 'growing up coc' books - although there are a few!
I've read some 'growing up X' stories (growing up LDS, growing up JW, growing up Fundamentalist Baptist) and most people do their best to make their story humorous. If it didn't have an element of humor in it, it would just be too horrible to think of, I guess. Coc doesn't even do 'cult' terribly well though, so there aren't a whole lot of 'growing up coc' books - although there are a few!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Those outside The Church
Sorry Agri, but I was responding to what was actually posted in the source text.agricola wrote:No me neither. But I think the laughter was just surprise and incredulity, and not 'making fun' laughter. Some of the coc doctrines seemed so strange to other people, that they laughed from the 'surprise' of it. Laughing was actually rare - mostly people look very sorry for me. I'd just as soon make it funny...
...doesn't sound like "surprise" plus the prof was experienced and very intelligent..."surprised" would not seem likely.the professor brought up the coc. He laughed as he said "they think they're the only ones going to heaven!"
specifically stated to be "laugh at"all he could do is laugh at the coc because of their views
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Re: Those outside The Church
I find that those who are "well educated" tend to have an air of condescension about them when talking about "those people" and what they believe. The educated folk in the CoC showed similar characteristics.
I remember growing up hearing about "your church" and how different we were from everyone else but mostly people looked with amazement that we didn't do something or not participate in stuff.
Now, I see things differently and when I tell people about Orthodoxy it is mostly, what? I guess because people are not familiar, the only condescending remarks have come from CoC'ers. Pride is and can be a damaging thing, even if the person is correct in what they have to say. I realize now how "proud" I was of being in the right church all those years and try with all my being to not be like that again. All too often people with much knowledge fall prey to pride and aren't afraid to display it much like professors and good christians.
I remember growing up hearing about "your church" and how different we were from everyone else but mostly people looked with amazement that we didn't do something or not participate in stuff.
Now, I see things differently and when I tell people about Orthodoxy it is mostly, what? I guess because people are not familiar, the only condescending remarks have come from CoC'ers. Pride is and can be a damaging thing, even if the person is correct in what they have to say. I realize now how "proud" I was of being in the right church all those years and try with all my being to not be like that again. All too often people with much knowledge fall prey to pride and aren't afraid to display it much like professors and good christians.
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Cootie Brown
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Re: Those outside The Church
If I may, I would like to add a different perspective. I’ve been a devout Christian and now I’m no longer a believer. That, I believe, gives me a perspective from both sides of the coin.
Does pride play a role in either perspective? In some cases it probably does but there are other factors to consider too. If I may, I would like to offer this example. Let’s say you are a Christian and your neighbor is a Mormon, and let’s assume you are familiar with Mormon beliefs & theology. Now, let’s say your friend wanted to share their faith with you, and wants you to study the Book of Mormon with them. Are you going to accept their invitation? If you aren’t familiar with Mormon theology you might accept their invitation just to get a better understanding of Mormon beliefs. Assuming you are familiar with Mormon theology, I seriously doubt you would be interested in studying Mormonism, unless you were using that opportunity to try and “convert” your neighbor to Christianity.
Truthfully, I think most Christians who are familiar with Mormon theology would smile if someone told them they were Mormons. And then later make some unkind remark about Mormons to a fellow Christian when you’re telling them about your encounter with a Mormon. Why? Because the Christian would feel morally & theologically superior because the Christian would firmly believe they have the truth and the Mormon’s don’t. Truthfully, I think many Christians laugh and make fun of Mormons behind their backs and joke about the nonsense they believe and wonder how could they be that stupid to believe such foolishness. So, when a Christian tells an educated nonbeliever they’re Christian and the nonbeliever smiles maybe they are wondering why you believe, in their view, the nonsensical things you profess to believe.
My point is simply this, it kind of depends on whose Ox is being gored doesn’t it? People have very different world views based on their environment, life experiences, level of education, and beliefs about religion in general or lack thereof. Many non-Christians think Christianity is a pretty bizarre religion. so those kind of feelings and beliefs cut both ways.
Everybody’s religious affiliation and beliefs have a great deal to do with where they were born, does it not? One’s person’s religion is another person’s folly.
I used to mock atheists when I was a believer because I never walked in their shoes and I certainly felt morally superior to them. After all, I had the real truth and they didn’t. I was bound for heaven because I believed the “right” things about God and Jesus, and those poor atheists were destined for hell, and it was their own fault. Those hardheaded prideful fools thought they were smarter than God.
Now that I’m wearing their shoes I look at all religious people differently, but I don’t mock or berate them. I just don’t walk in their shoes anymore because I no longer believe the things they do.
Does pride play a role in either perspective? In some cases it probably does but there are other factors to consider too. If I may, I would like to offer this example. Let’s say you are a Christian and your neighbor is a Mormon, and let’s assume you are familiar with Mormon beliefs & theology. Now, let’s say your friend wanted to share their faith with you, and wants you to study the Book of Mormon with them. Are you going to accept their invitation? If you aren’t familiar with Mormon theology you might accept their invitation just to get a better understanding of Mormon beliefs. Assuming you are familiar with Mormon theology, I seriously doubt you would be interested in studying Mormonism, unless you were using that opportunity to try and “convert” your neighbor to Christianity.
Truthfully, I think most Christians who are familiar with Mormon theology would smile if someone told them they were Mormons. And then later make some unkind remark about Mormons to a fellow Christian when you’re telling them about your encounter with a Mormon. Why? Because the Christian would feel morally & theologically superior because the Christian would firmly believe they have the truth and the Mormon’s don’t. Truthfully, I think many Christians laugh and make fun of Mormons behind their backs and joke about the nonsense they believe and wonder how could they be that stupid to believe such foolishness. So, when a Christian tells an educated nonbeliever they’re Christian and the nonbeliever smiles maybe they are wondering why you believe, in their view, the nonsensical things you profess to believe.
My point is simply this, it kind of depends on whose Ox is being gored doesn’t it? People have very different world views based on their environment, life experiences, level of education, and beliefs about religion in general or lack thereof. Many non-Christians think Christianity is a pretty bizarre religion. so those kind of feelings and beliefs cut both ways.
Everybody’s religious affiliation and beliefs have a great deal to do with where they were born, does it not? One’s person’s religion is another person’s folly.
I used to mock atheists when I was a believer because I never walked in their shoes and I certainly felt morally superior to them. After all, I had the real truth and they didn’t. I was bound for heaven because I believed the “right” things about God and Jesus, and those poor atheists were destined for hell, and it was their own fault. Those hardheaded prideful fools thought they were smarter than God.
Now that I’m wearing their shoes I look at all religious people differently, but I don’t mock or berate them. I just don’t walk in their shoes anymore because I no longer believe the things they do.
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OneStrike_ur_out
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Re: Those outside The Church
People that I knew used to look at me like I had two heads whenever I would stop what I was doing on a Sunday afternoon so that I could be back at the building I just left a few hours earlier for an evening service. I had that ingrained in me that I must be front and center for every service, every time, or else. Then sometime later, the cOC that I was a part of at the time actually voted (in a men's business meeting) to do away with Sunday evening services. I was SO relived and happy when that happened. Yet, the people I knew could not understand why I was so relieved. I told them it was because for SO long, there were 3 services a week, 2 of which were on the same day. And now, there are only 2 that I have to make it to, and that once I leave church on Sunday morning, I am done until Wednesday night. I said "Now, I can make it to services AND have a life! No more having to stop what I am doing on Sunday afternoon so that I can hurry back for an evening service". They still did not get my excitement and told me that I would still be expected to make it to the other two services every single time, without fail. I nodded and said "yes, but it's only two now!". By the way, it did help me tremendously when they cut out that Sunday evening service. But, the attendance police still slapped your wrist if you missed one of the others. I see now why people looked at me the way they did. It was like I was saying that I had to have their permission to no longer have to be there on Sunday evening. The cOC's attendance policy is stringent and unnatural. Good people who do their best are met with harshness and anger when they miss a service, regardless of the reason. That is, of course unless you are a preacher, deacon, elder, or are related to one. Then you get a pass.
"HE HAS GOTTEN PULLED AWAY!!"-The cOC's go-to answer whenever someone leaves.
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FinallyFree
- Posts: 2389
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Re: Those outside The Church
I am so glad I don't have to go on Sunday night & Wednesday night anymore. I never liked it & I am sorry my kids were dragged to church for all that.OneStrike_ur_out wrote:People that I knew used to look at me like I had two heads whenever I would stop what I was doing on a Sunday afternoon so that I could be back at the building I just left a few hours earlier for an evening service. I had that ingrained in me that I must be front and center for every service, every time, or else. Then sometime later, the cOC that I was a part of at the time actually voted (in a men's business meeting) to do away with Sunday evening services. I was SO relived and happy when that happened. Yet, the people I knew could not understand why I was so relieved. I told them it was because for SO long, there were 3 services a week, 2 of which were on the same day. And now, there are only 2 that I have to make it to, and that once I leave church on Sunday morning, I am done until Wednesday night. I said "Now, I can make it to services AND have a life! No more having to stop what I am doing on Sunday afternoon so that I can hurry back for an evening service". They still did not get my excitement and told me that I would still be expected to make it to the other two services every single time, without fail. I nodded and said "yes, but it's only two now!". By the way, it did help me tremendously when they cut out that Sunday evening service. But, the attendance police still slapped your wrist if you missed one of the others. I see now why people looked at me the way they did. It was like I was saying that I had to have their permission to no longer have to be there on Sunday evening. The cOC's attendance policy is stringent and unnatural. Good people who do their best are met with harshness and anger when they miss a service, regardless of the reason. That is, of course unless you are a preacher, deacon, elder, or are related to one. Then you get a pass.