Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

"We must do more"....that's what I perceived to be the point of CofC church services....week after week.

Okay, I'm not knocking that sentiment in and of itself, but really, when you realize you CAN'T ever be perfect, that you will never be perfect and that God is not even permitted to be a part of your own empowerment to do more....what really is left? What do you have left when you look at yourself and your life....

I would contrast that type of mindset with David's: "O God, give me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me"....

Two versions: one all on me, the other an operation of God....I simply do not see the validity of the former myself....

That pretty much sums up my understanding and experience with the c of C. Their focus on sin and perfection was an obsession. That, and the Bible of course. The Bible was kind of like the Ark of the Covenant to the Israelites. The c of C views the Bible as the Holy of Holies. And they absolutely do worship the Bible in spite of their denials.

Yes, there's a lot of talk about needing to do more to spread the gospel as well. Though really they mean to talk to your coworker or neighbor to try to convert them to the coC from their existing denomination. I always find that funny, because these are people who already HAVE the gospel. They already believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They just don't think that having a fellowship hall and kitchen or instrumental music is evil.

The coC never actually does anything to really spread the gospel to people who need it. They aren't going to the dregs of society to preach Jesus. They're going only to their cushy middle class coworkers and neighbors who already have Jesus.

My congregation has doubled in the last 10 years since our creation. And the point of the congregation spawning from the previous one was to spread the gospel to a new area. Funny thing is that a couple other churches had offered to combine with us (one was all black - that would have been refreshing! We met across the street from them for a while). There are already churches of Christ in the area, and yet we needed to be there as a separate congregation to spread the gospel. And how many people from the community have we gotten? Maybe 2 or 3? The vast majority of our new members just moved from other congregations. We got several families when another congregation split. Then various other families have moved in from other states. These families were all already coC. So our "growth" is just taking people from other congregations, not spreading the gospel to unreached peoples.

Shrubbery wrote:Yes, there's a lot of talk about needing to do more to spread the gospel as well. Though really they mean to talk to your coworker or neighbor to try to convert them to the coC from their existing denomination. I always find that funny, because these are people who already HAVE the gospel. They already believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They just don't think that having a fellowship hall and kitchen or instrumental music is evil.

The coC never actually does anything to really spread the gospel to people who need it. They aren't going to the dregs of society to preach Jesus. They're going only to their cushy middle class coworkers and neighbors who already have Jesus.

My congregation has doubled in the last 10 years since our creation. And the point of the congregation spawning from the previous one was to spread the gospel to a new area. Funny thing is that a couple other churches had offered to combine with us (one was all black - that would have been refreshing! We met across the street from them for a while). There are already churches of Christ in the area, and yet we needed to be there as a separate congregation to spread the gospel. And how many people from the community have we gotten? Maybe 2 or 3? The vast majority of our new members just moved from other congregations. We got several families when another congregation split. Then various other families have moved in from other states. These families were all already coC. So our "growth" is just taking people from other congregations, not spreading the gospel to unreached peoples.

I've always perceived the growth of the CofC as coming internally....just from baby-making....no general impetus to go out and bring in the poor, the perishing (not really having much in terms of external, serving ministries out in the community either).....just get there every week to make sure you are involved with the prayer that asks for forgiveness of your sins the past week (of course combined with taking communion!!)

isn't this sort how it is for all Christianity? People mainly changing brands rather than changing from non-Christian religions? sure there are some, but the bulk of "growth" within Christianity seems to be churn among those that are already accepting of the idea of the Bible and Jesus.

KLP wrote:isn't this sort how it is for all Christianity? People mainly changing brands rather than changing from non-Christian religions? sure there are some, but the bulk of "growth" within Christianity seems to be churn among those that are already accepting of the idea of the Bible and Jesus.

Well, could be, KLP....but as for our church, it has exploded over the past 17 years (started then) primarily with younger adults coming to the Lord who have never known Him before....especially the college age "kids", many just getting in to Christianity...it is something of course I never saw in the CoC, but as you say there are many other churches out there growing only internally....or dying on the vine....

KLP wrote:isn't this sort how it is for all Christianity? People mainly changing brands rather than changing from non-Christian religions? sure there are some, but the bulk of "growth" within Christianity seems to be churn among those that are already accepting of the idea of the Bible and Jesus.

There are Christian missionaries in other countries working and converting people from other religions. I have been to talks made by these folks, which they do to raise money to continue their work. Truthfully, it makes me very uncomfortable. If those folks are happy being Muslim, or practicing traditional Chinese ancestor worship, etc., I see no reason to bother them with preaching missionaries. If we send missionaries to help with food, shelter, and health care, that I can support.
Just my own opinion.

KLP wrote:isn't this sort how it is for all Christianity? People mainly changing brands rather than changing from non-Christian religions? sure there are some, but the bulk of "growth" within Christianity seems to be churn among those that are already accepting of the idea of the Bible and Jesus.

The statistics back that up KLP. The clear majority of "Christians" were born into their faith, and that is true for virtually all religions. Christian Missionary results are good in countries where superstition and poverty are rampant and education is scarce. Africa & Haiti being obvious examples. In other words the Gospel message is more appealing to people that have little or no hope of a better future, and that shouldn't surprise anyone.

After 911 there was a spike in the number of people accepting the gospel. Fear and uncertainty being the motivating factor there.

I read a few months ago that the Southern Baptist acknowledge they are baptizing about the same number of new converts to Christianity now as they did in 1950"s.

I've come to realize religion is as much about social structure as it is theologica, and I suspect that is more so in mainline and liberal versions of Christianity.

Moogy wrote:

KLP wrote:isn't this sort how it is for all Christianity? People mainly changing brands rather than changing from non-Christian religions? sure there are some, but the bulk of "growth" within Christianity seems to be churn among those that are already accepting of the idea of the Bible and Jesus.

There are Christian missionaries in other countries working and converting people from other religions. I have been to talks made by these folks, which they do to raise money to continue their work. Truthfully, it makes me very uncomfortable. If those folks are happy being Muslim, or practicing traditional Chinese ancestor worship, etc., I see no reason to bother them with preaching missionaries. If we send missionaries to help with food, shelter, and health care, that I can support.
Just my own opinion.

Yes, which is why I said "the bulk" and that sure some folks do change types of religion. But the wax and wane of congregations in your area is pretty much just churn and not "Pagans" deciding to become Christians.

I'd run away from the call of the Church of Christ as quick as I'd run away from the call of Cthluthu. At least he had some mercy on his cult followers and promised to eat them first. The CoC preacher would drive you nuts make you listening to him preach and have to come back for more and more.