Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

We've all heard references to this in the CofC....The "letter" of the law vs the "spirit" of the law....yet I saw nothing in my experience except the "letter"...and I mean it...So, why would this be discussed by a group of people that actually has MERGED the two of these....they have omitted the Spirt of Life from life itself....in fact they will tell you to your face that the Holy Spirit is essentially gone and replaced by the NT.....So there you have it, the "spirit" of the law and the "letter" of the law are one in the same...

You know, I really need to just go cool down somewhere...after reading some of these recent posts here, I'm disturbed and frustrated and mostly wishing I could change the past of experiences of many of you here in addition to my own....I need to go have a beer (or two or three...) and just chill for awhile....then I'll come back and try being here again....but right now, I'm just not in a very good state of mind/mood....perhaps wish I could get a group hug, but you know, men are not supposed to do that....bad sign, you know....anyway, it's all good...just need a break...

Actually no hugging these days.... #methree

"Letter of the Law" as opposed to "Spirit of the Law" is not talking about "Holy Spirit" of the law but rather the mindset and intention.

So is there a "spirit" of the law in CofC? I would say that mostly or often that is what it is about. Because society/culture/technology is so different from the NT era.

So like hair length, clothing modesty, makeup, language, acceptability of language in TV/Movies...these type personal holiness things are mentioned in scripture but times are different, so a judgment is made based on what is currently perceived as worldly/vulgar/rude according to society today. Men swimming without shirts, women with hem lines relative to the knee rather than foot/ankle. Women having shorter hair...no one thinks she is a man...unless she dresses in a way that whatever is currently "manish".

So the spirit of a Pauline' epistle is sometimes about how to maintain gender roles and sometimes about how to not be coarse/crude. But people can say BS and crap other things now and it is not shocking (at a CofC).

Is it wrong to buy a flashy Escalade? Well it depends on the intent and thinking behind the purchase.

This is what I think of when I hear "spirit of the law" and it seems that is a big part of the CENI hermeneutic as it is applying NT principles and values to current day situations. It is in essence WWJD....a figuring out what the spirit or principle is behind something so that it can be re-applied to something else today.

Letter of the law would be more Luddite and Amish thinking it seems.

SolaDude wrote:You know, I really need to just go cool down somewhere...after reading some of these recent posts here, I'm disturbed and frustrated and mostly wishing I could change the past of experiences of many of you here in addition to my own....I need to go have a beer (or two or three...) and just chill for awhile....then I'll come back and try being here again....but right now, I'm just not in a very good state of mind/mood....perhaps wish I could get a group hug, but you know, men are not supposed to do that....bad sign, you know....anyway, it's all good...just need a break...

Sola, not to worry. All of these experiences made us who we are today.

KLP wrote:Letter of the law

When they realize letter of the law means pooling all of their resources and sharing all things in common, that "letter of the law" thing comes to a screeching halt.

That was just cultural, doncha know.....

KLP wrote:"Letter of the Law" as opposed to "Spirit of the Law" is not talking about "Holy Spirit" of the law but rather the mindset and intention.

We would part ways, here, KLP....I think it is quite clear that there is a spiritually-perceived underpinning to any "law" of God, that is, the "spiritual" intent or principle underlying any given law.....and such intent is spiritually perceived....it's a fuller and deeper understanding of what is written...my point being if one does not even believe in the Holy Spirit of God being around today except in printed words in the NT, then one defaults to the intellect to attempt to "understand" the "spirit of the law", i.e., defaults to the ability of the intellect to "spiritually perceive" God...another way to look at it is "discernment"...Paul discussed this at length in Romans, that is, about the actual hostility to God's laws that remains in the absence of this spiritually-underpinned discernment.

Ironically, our righteousness must exceed the letter of the law....that's everywhere in the OT and NT....I especially remember the reference Jesus made to the unprofitable servants (Luke 17) who did only what they were commanded to do, i.e., what they said was their duty to do.....that one parable IMO calls out the CofC, and quite shamefully IMHO.

Ivy wrote:

KLP wrote:Letter of the law

When they realize letter of the law means pooling all of their resources and sharing all things in common, that "letter of the law" thing comes to a screeching halt.

That was just cultural, doncha know.....

Here, here, ditto....

Ivy wrote:

KLP wrote:Letter of the law

When they realize letter of the law means pooling all of their resources and sharing all things in common, that "letter of the law" thing comes to a screeching halt.

That was just cultural, doncha know.....

Oh yeah! And the anointing of oil for the sick. We have medicine today for that and if it has alcohol in it then that is ok as long as an announcement of some kind is made that the "Doctor" prescribed this medicine. Plus, how do we know what kind of oil is used? That was the question given back when I brought up the anointing with oil passage in James. Now if it ever comes up, I can answer! The recipe has been maintained in Constantinople/Istanbul for quite some time and been used for centuries!

SolaDude wrote:

KLP wrote:"Letter of the Law" as opposed to "Spirit of the Law" is not talking about "Holy Spirit" of the law but rather the mindset and intention.

We would part ways, here, KLP....I think it is quite clear that there is a spiritually-perceived underpinning to any "law" of God, that is, the "spiritual" intent or principle underlying any given law.....and such intent is spiritually perceived....it's a fuller and deeper understanding of what is written...my point being if one does not even believe in the Holy Spirit of God being around today except in printed words in the NT, then one defaults to the intellect to attempt to "understand" the "spirit of the law", i.e., defaults to the ability of the intellect to "spiritually perceive" God...another way to look at it is "discernment"...Paul discussed this at length in Romans, that is, about the actual hostility to God's laws that remains in the absence of this spiritually-underpinned discernment.

Ironically, our righteousness must exceed the letter of the law....that's everywhere in the OT and NT....I especially remember the reference Jesus made to the unprofitable servants (Luke 17) who did only what they were commanded to do, i.e., what they said was their duty to do.....that one parable IMO calls out the CofC, and quite shamefully IMHO.

I am not arguing that there are Spiritual principles...I am saying the term "spirit of the law" as used in common language and common understanding does not imply some sort of Spirit world. In a courtroom, legislative body, or secular law context when the term "spirit of the Law" is used..no one thinks it means something other than the original mindset and intention.

But back to the Bible context.
Obviously merely keeping the letter of the law without also keeping the spirit of the law is worthless and deadening. But the problem here is the person doing it and their attitude...that is the "spirit" under consideration. But even keeping the spirit of the law and ignoring the letter of the law is also a way that leadeth to destruction...you can have a zeal but still be ignorant. So consider injunctions such as against stealing and against screwing the neighbor's wife...can one keep the spirit of the law without at the same time keeping the letter of the law? "Well yeah I screwed her but I really didn't mean too"

So yes...if you want to argue that CofC is unenthusiastic and deadening then there is plenty to support that. But the term "spirit of the law" as commonly understood and in common usage denotes considering the mindset and intention of the law...not the giver or source of the law.

SolaDude wrote:I especially remember the reference Jesus made to the unprofitable servants (Luke 17) who did only what they were commanded to do, i.e., what they said was their duty to do.....that one parable IMO calls out the CofC, and quite shamefully IMHO.

It seems to me that Luke 17 reference is not about faulting the servants for only doing what they were commanded to do. It is faulting them for thinking they are special for doing what was commanded and thinking more highly of themselves...for not remembering the proper relationship that the Master is always higher than the servant no matter how special and faithful that servant may be. It is not faulting the servant for doing only what is commanded...it is pointing out that the servant has no prerogative other than to do what is commanded....which would tend to support the idea that the letter of the law is still important.

The reward to the servant would not be based on merit or earned. There is a proper order to things and the servants (as we see several times) where already planning on which mansion they would get and it better be silver lined.

KLP wrote:

SolaDude wrote:

KLP wrote:"Letter of the Law" as opposed to "Spirit of the Law" is not talking about "Holy Spirit" of the law but rather the mindset and intention.

We would part ways, here, KLP....I think it is quite clear that there is a spiritually-perceived underpinning to any "law" of God, that is, the "spiritual" intent or principle underlying any given law.....and such intent is spiritually perceived....it's a fuller and deeper understanding of what is written...my point being if one does not even believe in the Holy Spirit of God being around today except in printed words in the NT, then one defaults to the intellect to attempt to "understand" the "spirit of the law", i.e., defaults to the ability of the intellect to "spiritually perceive" God...another way to look at it is "discernment"...Paul discussed this at length in Romans, that is, about the actual hostility to God's laws that remains in the absence of this spiritually-underpinned discernment.

Ironically, our righteousness must exceed the letter of the law....that's everywhere in the OT and NT....I especially remember the reference Jesus made to the unprofitable servants (Luke 17) who did only what they were commanded to do, i.e., what they said was their duty to do.....that one parable IMO calls out the CofC, and quite shamefully IMHO.

I am not arguing that there are Spiritual principles...I am saying the term "spirit of the law" as used in common language and common understanding does not imply some sort of Spirit world. In a courtroom, legislative body, or secular law context when the term "spirit of the Law" is used..no one thinks it means something other than the original mindset and intention.

But back to the Bible context.
Obviously merely keeping the letter of the law without also keeping the spirit of the law is worthless and deadening. But the problem here is the person doing it and their attitude...that is the "spirit" under consideration. But even keeping the spirit of the law and ignoring the letter of the law is also a way that leadeth to destruction...you can have a zeal but still be ignorant. So consider injunctions such as against stealing and against screwing the neighbor's wife...can one keep the spirit of the law without at the same time keeping the letter of the law? "Well yeah I screwed her but I really didn't mean too"

So yes...if you want to argue that CofC is unenthusiastic and deadening then there is plenty to support that. But the term "spirit of the law" as commonly understood and in common usage denotes considering the mindset and intention of the law...not the giver or source of the law.

Well... not really following you here KLP.. but my OP was not addressing secular law... nor was it addressing just the giver of the law, but rather referencing spiritual discernment in the process of interpretive reading which is rejected by the CoC IMO.....