Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

That "thing" is living with the dualistic thinking perpetrated by that belief construct and its insidious affect on every aspect of one's life thereafter. Also known as "black and white thinking", it's a belief construct of absolutism which acts as the driving force of all of one's reasoning and world view mindset, basically a brainwashing of sorts, if you will IMO. I believe it sets up a residual, intrepid presence within almost all past CofC'ers, especially those who grew up in the CofC, and especially those who stayed in it for decades. Breaking that "Black and White" thinking mentality then becomes an ongoing battle for CofC'ers, and for some, a brick wall that simply will most likely forever remain insurmountable.

In reality life portrays itself best in spectra of understanding rather mere polarized dualistic manifestations of thought. And one of those black and white traps is the complete inability to see religion and science as other than dualistic, i.e., as "God" vs science, existing only in mutual exclusion.

So, looking at the "spectrum" of religion and science: at one end is coexistence, and at the the other is non-coexistence or mutual exclusion. In between those extremes (which can be viewed at both ends as "fundamentalist" thinking) exist an inordinate number of belief, reasoning, and thinking constructs which demonstrate the true reality that, in fact, the "black and white" or "my way or the highway" view of religion vs God is a falsely dichotomous one, and therefore completely one's own opinion and nothing more. The thought that science could possibly be revealing of religious thought in fact is a thinking process that simply can't be assimilated by black and white thinking.

It is interesting to note that most people, and yes, even most scientists see a co-existence of both. Yes, they may and do conflict, but also they provide separate and complementary filters for viewing and understanding the realm of existence we inhabit.

For example, below is a citation to a web survey confirming that even in the scientific world, research goes on in co-existent fashion as between the two concepts, in fact demonstrating the overwhelming belief in the scientific community that "religion" and "science" do not exist in continuous and endless appositional war and that scientists themselves generally don't think of the two in "black and white" terms:

h**ps://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/21/relig ... 74116.html

Yes, getting your head out of that 'yes/no; black/white;right/wrong' is possibly THE most difficult 'thing' about getting out of the coc. Simply ceasing to attend services is about the LEAST of it.

I look at the "tribalism" and divisions of all types in society today and I am not so sure that CofC is the root of black/white thinking. It seems most of society is split into two camps and they each think the other works from bad motives if not just out and out corrupt and evil. Ya know, like religious people are ignorant and fear based and are brainwashing folks and trying to control others for the money. I hear a lot about all sorts of spectrums but I find it hard to see much that doesn't fit into group think and tribalism. IMO it doesn't seem anyone really ever gets away from having their own perspective and things either do or don't fit with it. But coexisting is different IMO. Acting on what "doesn't fit" and condemning others (or not) is not the same thing as the black/white thinking itself...even if people don't characterize themselves as having black/white thinking. LOL usually Black/White thinking has a bad connotation now and so it is what "other people" do.

Is it ok to personally think something is wrong and not want to support it but also not condemn it?

What I think I mean to say is that maybe the black/white thinking is ubiquitous and part of being alive. My dog has a notion about what is right/wrong on some things.
But how one acts on that thinking might be the coexist and spectrum part.

SolaDude wrote:That "thing" is living with the dualistic thinking perpetrated by that belief construct and its insidious affect on every aspect of one's life thereafter. Also known as "black and white thinking", it's a belief construct of absolutism which acts as the driving force of all of one's reasoning and world view mindset, basically a brainwashing of sorts, if you will IMO. I believe it sets up a residual, intrepid presence within almost all past CofC'ers, especially those who grew up in the CofC, and especially those who stayed in it for decades. Breaking that "Black and White" thinking mentality then becomes an ongoing battle for CofC'ers, and for some, a brick wall that simply will most likely forever remain insurmountable.

In reality life portrays itself best in spectra of understanding rather mere polarized dualistic manifestations of thought. And one of those black and white traps is the complete inability to see religion and science as other than dualistic, i.e., as "God" vs science, existing only in mutual exclusion.

So, looking at the "spectrum" of religion and science: at one end is coexistence, and at the the other is non-coexistence or mutual exclusion. In between those extremes (which can be viewed at both ends as "fundamentalist" thinking) exist an inordinate number of belief, reasoning, and thinking constructs which demonstrate the true reality that, in fact, the "black and white" or "my way or the highway" view of religion vs God is a falsely dichotomous one, and therefore completely one's own opinion and nothing more. The thought that science could possibly be revealing of religious thought in fact is a thinking process that simply can't be assimilated by black and white thinking.

It is interesting to note that most people, and yes, even most scientists see a co-existence of both. Yes, they may and do conflict, but also they provide separate and complementary filters for viewing and understanding the realm of existence we inhabit.

For example, below is a citation to a web survey confirming that even in the scientific world, research goes on in co-existent fashion as between the two concepts, in fact demonstrating the overwhelming belief in the scientific community that "religion" and "science" do not exist in continuous and endless appositional war and that scientists themselves generally don't think of the two in "black and white" terms:

They don't have to oppose each other. I don't believe evolution is true but can use it as a classification system. With animals it is quite a good one. There are places where they can dovetail. The problem is that miracles cannot always have a scientific basis. The virgin birth is a good one. They are known among
amphibians. The off spring are normally females. You don't normally get males without sex. Basically it takes males to make males. What about Jesus. There was a miracle involved. Ron Wyatt obtained a sample of the dried blood of Jesus. He explains how. It was reconsistuted in saline solution. It turned out that the white blood cells could be reclaimed. They have DNA. Red blood cells do not have DNA. I have seen this before myself. His DNA was different than any other sexually derived male. A chromosome has two parts. A chromotid from the father and chromotid from the mother. Your physical characteristics are from both your mother and father. In fact you are half of each one. There are 23 chromosomes. Each chromosome is a pair of chromotids. Ron Wyatt confuses the two in his explaination. Jesus had 23 chromotids from Mary and a short chromotid from God making a single Y chromosome making him a male. Normal human males have a full set of 23 chomosomes. Jesus did not. He could be male and human. All the genetic information was there but slightly over half of what most people have. Mary would have to be genetically perfect for this to work. Mary was a virgin. If she was not the DNA picture would be different.
Ron Wyatt is on youtube. He has had other miracles happen in his life.

In the immediate context of leaving the CoC, I understand the point. Many times something is said or done by a non-CoC and the CoC person goes into shock over what was said or done. If, instead of gut reaction, the person would think about what was said or done their feelings may be different and might even agree or find common ground. I remember when the comment "going to church" was corrected and sometimes corrected with a mini-sermon and of course the full blown sermon from the pulpit. Over the years that phrase seems to have been relaxed somewhat and doesn't get the same reaction that it use to get. The cause I think is the rigid thinking about the use of the term "church" not so much the vernacular of the context and the drive to differentiate themselves from the other denominations.

My A is A thinking started while attending a CoC and was the cause of some problems and the eventual leaving. In the general, things are what they are and behave or act according to their nature. I don't think of it as black/white but a recognition of reality. If I observe something, like a lion, and note that it has big teeth, four legs, a long tail and hair all over its body and call it a dog does that make it so or do I not have enough information or knowledge about dogs and lions to call it correctly? Just because I call it a dog does not in fact make it a dog. Things are what they are independent of my observation or wishes. So in that respect would that be black/white or just stubborn to continually call a lion a dog?

I agree with KLP's comments about tribalism and would add that because of that mentality we have witnessed many atrocities through the course of human history. Just as a moron in a certain racial group doesn't make the whole race a group of morons so too a genius does not make the whole group a group of genius. When enough people from one group believe the people in the other group are morons bad things are bound to happen. So, just as my experience in the CoC shaped some of my thinking about others, now my thinking about them is clouded by my experience. This is a shame and I must use effort to not lump the whole CoC into one monolithic group and instead deal with them as individuals and make judgements individually. I still may have reservations or blanket opinions about the group as a whole but it is work for me to not let that show or effect my behavior towards individuals I know and meet. This tends to be my crazy experience with CoC to this day.