a coc theological question

[agricola]

If I ever knew, I forgot. I don't think I ever knew, or it was never clear -

background - my stepmother died last Friday (she was over 90) and a good coc lady of the church (she WAS a very nice lady, too), she had a nice coc funeral - everything was pretty low key - she was old, her friends are mostly dead, and nobody has much money anyway and besides she made most of the plans herself and she was - truly - a very modest woman).

So it was at the funeral home (Woodbine on Nolensville Pike, and at least half of you will know it) - two hours of visitation followed by a short funeral service in the chapel - no parade to the cemetery (what was it? Woodlawn!).

So tell me, those who know - because my dear husband sat through what was - to him - a rather bewildering service - and he asked - exactly what DOES your standard, mainstream coc teach about 'going to heaven'? Immediately? After Judgment Day?

Anyway - we had plans to join cousins in Charleston for Thanksgiving but this upended those plans and we are in the Buckle of the CoC Bible Belt this weekend instead, and it is darned chilly, by the way. Had turkey on Thursday at a restaurant - but it was a very GOOD restaurant, at least.

My sister (and her husband, AND her boys) were at the funeral (and completely failed to even SUGGEST inviting us anywhere, for anything). Oh well.

She and her family are the only staunch coc'ers among the three of us, although I believe my stepmother's kids are still involved - but seriously, my stepmother was NORMAL (except for being CoC) and has sane and reasonable offspring.

I've only known them my whole and entire life (at least since age three) because their family and our family were FOUNDING families of 'thuh church' we all grew up in. As my dear bro-in-law the Elder and PK who gave the eulogy mentioned, it is only right and proper that the widows in the church and the widowers in the church should pair up and maybe they should start something like (um he didn't say 'Grinder'. He mentioned one of those LEGIT matchmaker sites...) a matchmaking site, since the gossip forces were so successful.

I THINK he was going for laughs on that one, but I could be wrong.

So - what is it? Is stepmother (really the sweetest old lady you'd ever hope to meet and totally non-judgmental) ALREADY in Heaven etc, or is she 'asleep in the dust' awaiting the G and M Day of the Lord?

Curious and also wanted to be able to explain the funeral to my husband.

[FinallyFree]

Agricola, this issue is the one thing that, to me, does not add up. A couple months ago, at a church dinner, the minister said someone had submitted a question and wanted to know if you immediately go to heaven or are asleep until the day of judgement. He said historical Christian thought teaches that you sleep til the Day of Judgment. BUT, people constantly contradict this at church with things they say. To me, it is the one big thing that doesn’t add up. I feel like no one knows.

[agricola]

Well SERIOUSLY, of COURSE 'no one knows'! Everybody who might conceivably 'know' is very conveniently DEAD!

I just wondered if the coc had a standard opinion, because Lord knows the CoC has a standard opinion about EVERYTHING in the world.

[FinallyFree]

In the CofC, I was taught that it was like the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. When you die, the saved go to a waiting place for heaven and the lost go to a waiting place for Hell. My husband says this does not make sense because then you are already judged before the official Judgment Day.
Really, I don’t think there is an official opinion in the CofC. I have heard different things.

[agricola]

O lordie, I have clearly identified a potential for congregational splitting...

[Ivy]

The standard line I was taught was that they sleep until judgment day because of that scripture. Y’all know the one. But I think that the general christian comminuty likes to believe the loved one is already in heaven — because of that other scripture. Y’all know that one too. That one is mord comforting, I think, so many go with that one.

[Cootie Brown]

I am also bewildered when a Christian Minister says, at a funeral, the deceased is dancing with Jesus in Heaven right now. The Bible indicates the final Judgement, the process that supposedly determines who is and is not being granted permission to enter into Heaven, will not take place until the end of time.

That would indicate the dead have not risen, as Paul teaches, or been resurrected, in their Spiritual Bodies. That is also confusing. Are these spiritual beings the ones to be judged? Can a spiritual being enjoy the blessings of heaven or feel the excruciating and endless pain of Hell?

This is more proof, to me at least, that this is all manmade and the various authors never knew each other, so their stories aren’t coordinated. That noted, I don’t thinK the Bible teaches anyone goes straight to heaven when they die, either that or the final day of judgement takes place immediately when a believer dies.

And the living have no way of knowing if their loved one passed or failed that judgement. Just more proof, IMO, the Bible has human origins.

[Ivy]

Just more proof, IMO, the Bible has human origins.

To me it just says that we all look for what we want to see. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. Could be just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

[Cootie Brown]

Just more proof, IMO, the Bible has human origins.

To me it just says that we all look for what we want to see. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. Could be just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

Edited for agreement only.

I agree, however a skeptic might think an all knowing all powerful God would be specific and unambiguous in It’s instructions. An honest examination of Christianity, and the Bible, I think, would reveal some obvious problems. A human created religion would almost certainly reflect some of these clues to its human origin.

A skeptic might also think:

1. A reward must be offered. And it must be something humans would desire. In the case of Christianity the reward is eternal life. This is Something all humans would eagerly seek. And it’s something that cannot be validated as being true or not. Thus the need for faith. Believe it because we say it’s true. Eternal life is a reward humans would eagerly seek because humans are aware of their own mortality and they fear the unknown, it this case the unknown is death.

2. A punishment must also be required. This insures obedience to the laws, rules, & commands of the religion’s leaders. The punishment threatened for failure to be an obedient believer must be something so terrifying that no one would dare risk the consequences of being disobedient. In the case of Christianity the punishment threatened is eternal torture. Being burned alive is an unimaginable horror, but being burned alive for all eternity is so terrifying that no one dare risk experiencing such a fate.

3. Now, make the qualification for eternal bliss and eternal torture so ambiguous no one can ever be certain they will receive the promised reward when they die. The possibility of eternal punishment must always be present. Never provide positive proof that any believer can possibly know for certain they will qualify for the promised reward when they die.

That is Christianity in a nut shell, and it has proven to be an enormously successful scheme.

I’m not saying any of those things, but a skeptic might at least think those things.

[Ivy]

We can agree to disagree.