Ex-Church of Christ Support Board

I was never a member of a extreme hard line coc. I went to mainstream and progressive congregations mostly. While the exclusive "we're THE church" attitude never sat well with me, never feeling like I could measure up to their standards was probably bigger. The whole "be ye perfect" idea that, whether they want to admit or not, came from the holiness part of the mix that is the "restoration" background.

I believe you can be a holy and righteous person even if you consume alcohol and/or tobacco in moderation. I don't think it's a character flaw to use profanity now and then. But not to them and other hardcore fundamentalists. They are all sins and stumbling blocks.

I also never thought it was a big deal that other denominations existed. As an adult I grew to love and appreciate the customs and traditions of my "denominational" friends and neighbors. I've even gotten to sing in community choirs in the past with the *gasp* denominations at special community events! A coc acquaintance of mine warned that I ought not tell too many about that because it would make them uneasy. Really??!! Even just believing music is ok, female ministers are ok, and other faiths are just fine is wrong. Even if your name is on a coc role, believing those things among others will still ruin you.

At the end of the day, I figured it wasn't fair to myself or them. I can't be what they expect one to be.

I truly believe that no one can be 'what they (say they) expect' everyone to be.

Although hardly a single member of the coc will admit - TRULY admit (not just hang head and piously claim so, to be sure to get the credit for being 'humble') that the standards are actually not possible to live up to.

I couldn't stand the sheer disconnection between what we were supposed to be, what we claimed to be, what we actually were, and most directly, who I myself actually was.

agricola wrote:I truly believe that no one can be 'what they (say they) expect' everyone to be.

Although hardly a single member of the coc will admit - TRULY admit (not just hang head and piously claim so, to be sure to get the credit for being 'humble') that the standards are actually not possible to live up to.

I couldn't stand the sheer disconnection between what we were supposed to be, what we claimed to be, what we actually were, and most directly, who I myself actually was.

A mature Christian will seek help from their church. I have seen a functioning church. Not the COC. They are too busy fighting over details while missing details that are important. Like love for other people that need help. Support Children's Homes out the church treasury? Who is worried about the money. Is God poor? Didn't the Jews have a tithe for widows and orphans. Deuteronomy 26.

agricola wrote:admit - TRULY admit

Show of hands, who else read that and immediately had the song "Did you repent, truly repent?" run through your head?

There isn't a way to be what they expect, and that's why secret guilt (and sometimes secret lives) runs rampant in the COC. They hide things. They put on a show.

Do you know what the percentage is for COCers who have sex before marriage? The same as everybody else. COCers just hide it. (If you've ever been a student in a COC college, you found out just exactly how much sex was going on.) I'll readily admit, I had sex before marriage, and a fair bit of it. Many was the time when I'd have got laid on Saturday night, and then been up on Sunday morning leading singing or reading scripture, knowing that when I looked up, there'd be the elder's daughter that I'd slept with looking right back at me, singing the song just like she'd never sinned at all.

Hell, I preached at youth rallies about the dangers of sex and how God wants you to be abstinent, knowing that I was gonna get some from my girlfriend later on that day.

It's all about that image. You see, COCers don't really mind if you DO stuff. They just don't want it to be told. Because god knows, they're doing some sinful shit too. So long as the APPEARANCE of evil is avoided, all is well. And even once a sin is found out... just do your little walk of shame and NEVER EVER speak of it again.

ena wrote:A mature Christian will seek help from their church.

I can't speak for Christians, but in my opinion, maturity comes when you break from co-dependency, which of course means that a mature person doesn't need a church to lean on as a crutch.

GuitarHero wrote:

ena wrote:A mature Christian will seek help from their church.

I can't speak for Christians, but in my opinion, maturity comes when you break from co-dependency, which of course means that a mature person doesn't need a church to lean on as a crutch.

Some are strong enough for that and some not. Where you are personally is not where others are. I have a friend with ms. My wife and others were doing her laundry and food. She is better now. Should we let her die beside the road. A woman lives with me for nothing. If we had not given her a bedroom in our house she probably would have died living in her car. She has lived that way. She has been here over two years. I have been well rewarded by her presence. You cannot know all and see all. God sees this stuff. You can go to grave proud of helping no one and justifying any way you want. Co-dependency is about sick relationships. People get set up for it often with parents that lack good parenting skills or lack of love. Drugs are commonly involved. If you have a firm foundation based on love you are lucky in this world. If you have a job that generates money you are lucky. Not everybody does. It is not just laziness. I live with three other people. We are all former tech workers. We all have our issues which would take years to detail. I frequent a burger place. Linda is about 55 and is an epileptic. She can work and is willing but she is not able to find a job in Silicon Valley because she is not young and attractive. Silicon Valley is that way. I often offer her a burger and a drink. She gets dropped off from a group home where she lives. She has sat with me and talks. I cannot help her much but I can take time and listen. That is often what these people need. I am amazed at the blindness in our country. These people are invisible to most.

There is NO way to live up the standards set by the cOC. And they KNOW THIS!! Basically, it's a smoke screen. Sort of like a magician's sleight of hand. Set the bar SO unrealisticly high that nobody can even come close to it. That way, you can always have something to finger wag about. It's why they NEED screw ups in the congregation. They especially love it when one does the walk of shame. It was a chance for others to prop themselves up. "Well, I never did anything like that!". I used to get phone calls whenever I would miss a service. I didn't answer them, so the next time they would see me, they would make it a point to say that I wasn't there, by saying "missed you". And, of course, it was a chance to prop up someone else. "Well, ole so and so is never out for any reason". So, because ole so and so is never out, he just MUST be living up to the impossibly high cOC standards, right?!

The whole thing reminds me of a former friend who gave me the boot from her life forever because of ONE little screw up for which I apologized and asked for her forgiveness many times over. After her refusal to accept my apologies, I finally just told her where to get off. And then it hit me. I had simply been thinking about it all wrong. She was NEVER the friend I thought she was anyway. She held me to standards similar to that of the cOC. Standards that she herself couldn't live up to. But yet, I was expected to be perfect? Uh, NO!!

A mature Christian will seek help from their church.

I disagree with this. I have seen negative outcomes too many times.
A mature individual will keep her private struggles to herself, or share only
with very close, trusted persons who have withstood the test of time.

ena wrote:

GuitarHero wrote:

ena wrote:A mature Christian will seek help from their church.

I can't speak for Christians, but in my opinion, maturity comes when you break from co-dependency, which of course means that a mature person doesn't need a church to lean on as a crutch.

Some are strong enough for that and some not. Where you are personally is not where others are. I have a friend with ms. My wife and others were doing her laundry and food. She is better now. Should we let her die beside the road. A woman lives with me for nothing. If we had not given her a bedroom in our house she probably would have died living in her car. She has lived that way. She has been here over two years. I have been well rewarded by her presence. You cannot know all and see all. God sees this stuff. You can go to grave proud of helping no one and justifying any way you want. Co-dependency is about sick relationships. People get set up for it often with parents that lack good parenting skills or lack of love. Drugs are commonly involved. If you have a firm foundation based on love you are lucky in this world. If you have a job that generates money you are lucky. Not everybody does. It is not just laziness. I live with three other people. We are all former tech workers. We all have our issues which would take years to detail. I frequent a burger place. Linda is about 55 and is an epileptic. She can work and is willing but she is not able to find a job in Silicon Valley because she is not young and attractive. Silicon Valley is that way. I often offer her a burger and a drink. She gets dropped off from a group home where she lives. She has sat with me and talks. I cannot help her much but I can take time and listen. That is often what these people need. I am amazed at the blindness in our country. These people are invisible to most.

I honestly have no idea how any of that was a reply to what I said. But cheers!

GuitarHero wrote:

agricola wrote:admit - TRULY admit

Show of hands, who else read that and immediately had the song "Did you repent, truly repent?" run through your head?

There isn't a way to be what they expect, and that's why secret guilt (and sometimes secret lives) runs rampant in the COC. They hide things. They put on a show.

Do you know what the percentage is for COCers who have sex before marriage? The same as everybody else. COCers just hide it. (If you've ever been a student in a COC college, you found out just exactly how much sex was going on.) I'll readily admit, I had sex before marriage, and a fair bit of it. Many was the time when I'd have got laid on Saturday night, and then been up on Sunday morning leading singing or reading scripture, knowing that when I looked up, there'd be the elder's daughter that I'd slept with looking right back at me, singing the song just like she'd never sinned at all.

Hell, I preached at youth rallies about the dangers of sex and how God wants you to be abstinent, knowing that I was gonna get some from my girlfriend later on that day.

It's all about that image. You see, COCers don't really mind if you DO stuff. They just don't want it to be told. Because god knows, they're doing some sinful shit too. So long as the APPEARANCE of evil is avoided, all is well. And even once a sin is found out... just do your little walk of shame and NEVER EVER speak of it again.

I shared a story about a rally we had at my former church in the Sex threat which did no good because within a year 5 girls got pregnant and a couple of them were on baby number two. Now single motherhood isn't frowned upon at my former church and I believe also in a lot of black CoC because the churches are built on single mothers. That was always one thing that could slide. They of course couldn't have their baby showers at the church but the church members could throw them showers. It's crazy the differences between black and white CoC's and how we believe in the same overall message but how we can let something's slide.