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Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 3:31 pm
by longdistancerunner
There are two versions of what happened after Jesus birth, in Matthew Jesus is taken to Egypt until Herod's death and in Luke he is taken to Nazareth. I don't recall much discussion about the Egypt trip, I remember about going back to Bethlehem. What do others remember being taught about this if anything?.
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 5:33 pm
by B.H.
If he went to Egypt is wasn't for very long because a new born baby boy had to be presented to the Lord at the temple so many days after birth. I think it is a month. Find out exactly when Herod the Great died and you are just within a month or so of Jesus birth according to the Bible.
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:15 pm
by zeek
According to the gospels, Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea. The shepherds came and paid homage. Following that, when he was eight days old Joseph and Mary traveled to Jerusalem to present him at the temple for his circumcision. Following that they returned to their home town of Nazareth. The Magi didn't visit the stable in Bethlehem. Jesus was around two years old when they located him in his home in Nazareth. (I know every nativity scene you've ever seen has the shepherds and Magi and angels and animals all stirred together to make a beautiful scene but you can't make that image comport with what the scriptures actually say.) After the Magi had gone, being themselves warned of God not to return to Herod, Joseph is warned of God to take Jesus and flee. So, they left that night and ended up in Egypt. Herod had all the children 2 years old and under in the vicinity of Bethlehem of Judea murdered in an effort to exterminate this threat to his claim on the throne. Joseph, Mary and Jesus and probably at least some of his siblings were in exile in Egypt until the death of Herod at which time God told Joseph it was safe for them to return to Israel.
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:27 pm
by longdistancerunner
zeek wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:15 pm
According to the gospels, Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea. The shepherds came and paid homage. Following that, when he was eight days old Joseph and Mary traveled to Jerusalem to present him at the temple for his circumcision. Following that they returned to their home town of Nazareth. The Magi didn't visit the stable in Bethlehem. Jesus was around two years old when they located him in his home in Nazareth. (I know every nativity scene you've ever seen has the shepherds and Magi and angels and animals all stirred together to make a beautiful scene but you can't make that image comport with what the scriptures actually say.) After the Magi had gone, being themselves warned of God not to return to Herod, Joseph is warned of God to take Jesus and flee. So, they left that night and ended up in Egypt. Herod had all the children 2 years old and under in the vicinity of Bethlehem of Judea murdered in an effort to exterminate this threat to his claim on the throne. Joseph, Mary and Jesus and probably at least some of his siblings were in exile in Egypt until the death of Herod at which time God told Joseph it was safe for them to return to Israel.
That is a composite version that doesn't agree with the events precisely in Matthew and Luke. Luke has nothing about Egypt.
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:25 am
by agricola
This is the reason people write BOOKS called 'Harmony of the Gospels'. Because the stories do not synch.
They went to Egypt. They didn't go to Egypt. A guy always called 'Jesus of NAZARETH' who started his entire career in and around the Sea of Galilee - was he born there, or south in a completely different provincial area, because of a (really) TOTALLY UNREALISTIC AND A-HISTORIC mishmosh about a census.
Herod the Great was a piece of work, and he totally WOULD have slaughtered any number of people (and did) BUT - seriously - his life and career are actually fairly well documented - and there are no records of any 'slaughter of the innocents' in any records outside the New Testament. It is a 'truthy' story, it just isn't true.
And WHEN was he born? When Herod the Great was king? Herod died around 4 BCE. Or was he born (as Luke says) when Quirinius was governer or Syria - which didn't happen until abut 6 CE - nine years AFTER the death of Herod the Great.
(by the way, a lot of Christians miss that 'Herod' in the New Testament' isn't always the SAME Herod. Herod had several sons - all named 'Herod' something. Herod Antipas. Herod Archelaus. Herod Philip).
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 7:25 am
by longdistancerunner
agricola wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:25 am
This is the reason people write BOOKS called 'Harmony of the Gospels'. Because the stories do not synch.
They went to Egypt. They didn't go to Egypt. A guy always called 'Jesus of NAZARETH' who started his entire career in and around the Sea of Galilee - was he born there, or south in a completely different provincial area, because of a (really) TOTALLY UNREALISTIC AND A-HISTORIC mishmosh about a census.
Herod the Great was a piece of work, and he totally WOULD have slaughtered any number of people (and did) BUT - seriously - his life and career are actually fairly well documented - and there are no records of any 'slaughter of the innocents' in any records outside the New Testament. It is a 'truthy' story, it just isn't true.
And WHEN was he born? When Herod the Great was king? Herod died around 4 BCE. Or was he born (as Luke says) when Quirinius was governer or Syria - which didn't happen until abut 6 CE - nine years AFTER the death of Herod the Great.
(by the way, a lot of Christians miss that 'Herod' in the New Testament' isn't always the SAME Herod. Herod had several sons - all named 'Herod' something. Herod Antipas. Herod Archelaus. Herod Philip).
Excellent post!!!
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 7:26 am
by longdistancerunner
And if you really try to read the accounts of this in the gospel they are extremely confusing and I mean extremely. And I tried reading from the NRSV which is much clearer than the King James. Overall the King James Version of the Bible is just incomprehensible, and the NSRV is more readable, much better but both the stories and the way they are written are incredulous and confusing. I wonder how many people have ever truly set down and try to read and understand the New Testament.
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 7:46 am
by zeek
Well, the question was "what do you remember was taught?"; my post pretty much sums up what I was taught. I'm not making any claims as to its historical accuracy or being true.
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 10:47 am
by agricola
As for what we were TAUGHT - we were taught an interesting combination story including elements from all three synoptic gospels where the problems of timing were simply-ignored completely. So he was born in Bethlehem AND when to Egypt AND went to Nazareth AND the Magi came to Bethlehem AND...
Re: Jesus trip to Egypt, what do you remember was taught?
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:54 am
by zeek
Questions and discussions like this are exactly why fundie churches discourage critical thinking. If you start to really think about it and dig even a little bit the faith they promote begins to unravel quickly.