A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
Opie wrote:This past summer I attended the funeral of a CoC member, and one of the songs that was sung at the service was Amazing Grace. I was surprised to see that in the verse with the words "the hour I first believed", someone had marked out the word 'believed' and scribbled in the word 'obeyed' in all of the books. It struck me as both sad and ironic that they would take the words of the world's best-known hymn about grace, and turn it into a song about the importance of human effort.
Technically, it does not even contradict their own theology, because if you believe i.e. "the hour I first believed" then you would want to get baptized. More Church of Christ silliness.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
I am wondering if the CofC did not just sort of "get to this" place after years of habit and dealing with other outside doctrines. I mean it makes no sense that Noah would have been saved if he had been disobedient and no different from anyone else. And yes he is recalled as being a faithful believer. But to make the statement that it was not grace but obedience that saved Noah is different and has to have a motive or basis. I think for some it is just laziness or lack of reflection to equate and relate the resulting obedience to the salvation. Correlative does not prove causation. Others seem to have a doctrinal motive, as I said above, they are trying to address some other issue.
Because to me the exact point of salvation and the how/why one is saved is not knowable and not discussed in the NT...faith, belief, trust, obedience, actions, attitude, Gospel, doctrine, motives...all of it is wrapped up together. So the only reason I see for singling out one as most important or the exact point in time is due to factors outside of the NT.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Opie wrote:This past summer I attended the funeral of a CoC member, and one of the songs that was sung at the service was Amazing Grace. I was surprised to see that in the verse with the words "the hour I first believed", someone had marked out the word 'believed' and scribbled in the word 'obeyed' in all of the books. It struck me as both sad and ironic that they would take the words of the world's best-known hymn about grace, and turn it into a song about the importance of human effort.
Removing "the hour I first believed" completely destroys the intent of the song, and it's title.
Freedom in Christ always trumps slavery to legalism
To say that it was Noah's obedience rather than God's Grace that saved him implies that God was OBLIGATED to save Noah due to his obedient response. I still believe it was Grace that moved God to provide Noah a way out. Noah's love of God and obedience to His will established a relationship that prompted God to extend grace, perhaps? I'm not sure I'm thinking of this completely right, but I just can't dismiss an act of salvation on God's part as being anything but grace.
