The beginning of the end for me

[zeek]

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[agricola]

You mean that bit about blessed are they who make themselves eunuchs for the sake of heaven....?

[zeek]

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[teresa]

He was teaching a Bible class and said we should not participate in raising of hands in worship because even though it was scriptural, it was copying denominations and therefore shouldn't be done.

For the hardline CoC it's all about not being like the denominations. They define themselves as "not like them", spending inordinate amounts of time on that topic.

The argument I always heard in the "anti" CoC is that the raising of hands in worship is not scriptural because there is no command or approved example of the early church doing that in worship.

[agricola]

But - but - in that case, how do you know it is even okay to sit DOWN? There's barely a mention in the entire NT about anything concerning what to do or how to do it in 'church'. Maybe they all stood all the time. The Eastern Orthodox don't sit down - maybe they have a more accurate tradition!

The whole notion that absolutely everything you could do must have a positive example or else it is forbidden is not sustainable. The NT is not a graphic manual with footnotes on how to 'do church'. At some point, EVERY group of Christians has had to decide what to do and when to do it, and where, and how, and how often. Of course it's a 'tradition of man' and who else's tradition could it possibly BE? The NT simply does not contain any reasonable amount of stage directions.

[williamray123]

But - but - in that case, how do you know it is even okay to sit DOWN? There's barely a mention in the entire NT about anything concerning what to do or how to do it in 'church'. Maybe they all stood all the time. The Eastern Orthodox don't sit down - maybe they have a more accurate tradition!

The whole notion that absolutely everything you could do must have a positive example or else it is forbidden is not sustainable. The NT is not a graphic manual with footnotes on how to 'do church'. At some point, EVERY group of Christians has had to decide what to do and when to do it, and where, and how, and how often. Of course it's a 'tradition of man' and who else's tradition could it possibly BE? The NT simply does not contain any reasonable amount of stage directions.

True. One could argue a building is not a necessary inference at all when the examples of acts were teaching in the synagogues, house to house, and by the river where people gathered to pray. If they are following the new testament pattern, there is just as much lack of an example in the NT for a building as there is a piano. They can argue it is inference, but they don't know if a building was not included because God didn't want it. If the building helps you worship, why can't a piano be inference too? Just helps you sing on key and follow the command to sing - it doesn't stop you from singing, it only helps. (just like they argue for song books - just helps the singing) Seems like a valid inference to me.

The whole inference thing is a fallacy anyway - one man's inference is another's blasphemy.

[KLP]

But - but - in that case, how do you know it is even okay to sit DOWN? There's barely a mention in the entire NT about anything concerning what to do or how to do it in 'church'. Maybe they all stood all the time. The Eastern Orthodox don't sit down - maybe they have a more accurate tradition!.....

Agri, ye do err not knowing the scriptures

Sitting is approved and authorized a number of times, even from the beginning on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

1 Corinthians 14:30 But if a revelation be made to another sitting by, let the first keep silence.

James 2:2 For if there come into your synagogue a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, and there come in also a poor man in vile clothing;

3 and ye have regard to him that weareth the fine clothing, and say, Sit thou here in a good place; and ye say to the poor man, Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool;

[agricola]

klp, again - you just can do that at the drop of an inference! So both sitting AND standing are 'authorized' but must there be footstools for everyone?

[KLP]

klp, again - you just can do that at the drop of an inference! So both sitting AND standing are 'authorized' but must there be footstools for everyone?

Agri, not to disagree but there is no need for you to thank me. I am only too glad to provide 2 or 3 witnesses of scripture to establish a thing.

[agricola]

I feel the need to wave hands and bow or something to the guru at this point. Sometimes, when you get far ENOUGH from the coc, this all starts to get very amusing!