Strange Encounter

[faithfyl]

Under this logic, milk, eggs (infertil), and cheese should be ok, yes?

Many vegetarians eat animal byproducts such as milk, cheese, etc. because the animal wasn't killed to get them.

[Ivy]

Under this logic, milk, eggs (infertil), and cheese should be ok, yes?

Many vegetarians eat animal byproducts such as milk, cheese, etc. because the animal wasn't killed to get them.

It's still animal exploitation though. The animal can't give consent for its milk to be taken, or for its calves to be removed from them so the milk can be sold. Just saying.

[KLP]

I thought this was a support and agreement only forum yet what I find is a back-n-forth over rules and definitions of what to eat. Where is the support and agreement? You people are acting like this is some sort of Coffee Shoppe. (or is coffee forbidden as well?)

[Ivy]

I thought this was a support and agreement only forum yet what I find is a back-n-forth over rules and definitions of what to eat. Where is the support and agreement? You people are acting like this is some sort of Coffee Shoppe. (or is coffee forbidden as well?)

Oh, I apologize. But as an aside, I do think that we exers can be legalistic about anything we get involved in, including what we eat. I'm not meaning to be legalistic or judgmental about vegetarianism, as I am no longer vegetarian and that would be hypocritical of me. I respect faithful's vegetarianism, and support her in that.

[B.H.]

I thought this was a support and agreement only forum yet what I find is a back-n-forth over rules and definitions of what to eat. Where is the support and agreement? You people are acting like this is some sort of Coffee Shoppe. (or is coffee forbidden as well?)

I'm sorry KLP. I forget to check the rules to the various subforums. I apologize and if anyone wants to edit out my posts they can. My feelings will not be hurt.

[faithfyl]

Under this logic, milk, eggs (infertil), and cheese should be ok, yes?

Many vegetarians eat animal byproducts such as milk, cheese, etc. because the animal wasn't killed to get them.

It's still animal exploitation though. The animal can't give consent for its milk to be taken, or for its calves to be removed from them so the milk can be sold. Just saying.

Oh yes, it's animal exploitation and I have issues with it, for sure.

But it's not the same thing as eating meat.

[agricola]

Chickens drop eggs on practically a daily basis. Without a rooster around they are infertile. You might as well eat them; otherwise they will simply rot.

And modern cows have been bred to give so much milk, they can support a calf or two AND a fairly impressive amount of extra milking - in fact, if you don't milk them, they are in pain. Modern cows wouldn't exist if humans hadn't domesticated wild (and giant and very dangerous) aurochs. I do think we humans could do a lot better job about treating farm animals BETTER, but just stopping altogether isn't a reasonable or even a desirable goal - unless we can plan for decades of tapering off (possibly do-able).

Ok feel free to skip the following as I drop into insufferable lecture mode:

Humans as a species are omnivorous, and there are some things - vitamins and amino acids - that we MUST have in our diet or else we die or become ill, and our bodies do NOT manufacture these - we must get them from our food.

Most of those (not all) are easily and efficiently acquired from eating meat. People who avoid all animal products must - really MUST - learn an enormous amount about how to eat, what to eat, even WHEN to eat, and what to avoid eating at the same time - in order to properly get what they must have, and aren't getting. Few plant products contain these substances, and our bodies aren't terribly good at getting to them from plants.

Sorry. That's just a fact.

It can be done - people, after all, do okay with a vegan or stringent vegetarian diet - but it is WORK.

But please do understand that infants and small children have DIED when fed a vegan diet. Infants and small children NEED the fat and proteins that adults can do without. So anybody who would like to try out being vegan, or vegetarian, please read a LOT first.

It's not as simple as 'just eat more vegetables' or 'stop eating meat and fish'.

I'm probably not relaying anything that is brand new, but still -

And how on earth did we get to this from talking about an overheard phrase or two at a restaurant, about midweek church services??

[KLP]

...
And how on earth did we get to this from talking about an overheard phrase or two at a restaurant, about midweek church services??

Generation of a bevy of rules that are generally applied inconsistently and lack of moderation? can vegans at least beat a dead horse?

This topic thread should have been in Coffee Zone to allow snarky comments about the choices of others.

[Ivy]

Oh yes, it's animal exploitation and I have issues with it, for sure.

But it's not the same thing as eating meat.

I agree with you.

[B.H.]

...
And how on earth did we get to this from talking about an overheard phrase or two at a restaurant, about midweek church services??

Generation of a bevy of rules that are generally applied inconsistently and lack of moderation? can vegans at least beat a dead horse?

This topic thread should have been in Coffee Zone to allow snarky comments about the choices of others.

KLP, I begged your forgiveness. Are you saying I am not forgiven?