Obsession with Baptists

[Cootie Brown]

Arguing extremes and bizarre exceptions to characterize a general command, intention, and pattern is not much use IMO. God has the prerogative to save who He chooses. God's Will does not require Mankind to agree or sign off. Just because a person becomes convinced of Jesus as the Christ just prior to being martyred does not have any bearing on whether of not God intends that Christians serve and do good works for others. This is Junior High stuff IMO.

It seems you are saying that New Covenant thingy doesn't place any obligations on God. God being God is free to honor His covenant or not? If God saves who He chooses then those that are not saved really had no choice. That sounds like you're a Calvinist. It's all been predetermined so those that God has chosen to be saved will be saved and those not chosen are lost and there is nothing either group can do about it?

I'm assuming that isn't what you really meant, but that is kinda what you said or at least that is how I interpreted your words. However, if that is what you meant, then I disagree. If God won't follow His own rules then it doesn't matter what anyone believes or does because it's all arbitrary as far as God is concerned.

[ena]

Church of Christ says you are saved the minute you get up from the water after being dunked. The Baptists say you are saved the minute you truly believe in Christ and trust him to save you. In my opinion looking back I's argue today they are actually both right, but from different perspectives.

In a way you are right. The CoC focuses on water baptism for salvation. In some cases that can be seen to be unnecessary. The thieves were saved without. After Jesus died they died so they died under the new covenant. They were nailed to the cross and could not come down and be baptized. Before they were nailed to the cross they could only receive the baptism of John. This is hugely problematic to the CoC position. I have seen many times where where they twisted meanings and even tried to tell God what he can and cannot do. I find God out in the world and not in a box. Some think he in a shabby building. Heal bones were used to nail to the cross. Nailing to the front of the foot would tear out. I have seen a heal bone so nailed from an ossuwary, a bone box.

There is a second passage that they ignore. Acts 10:43-48 KJV
Notice that the gift of the holy spirit was given when they believed. Take a special note of verse 47. I once thought the baptism of the CoC was a strong point but now see its weakness. Salvation is spiritual not physical.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

[KLP]

Actually this is an ancient habit...and there are many outside of CofC (and out of religion) who enjoy spouting off about their caricature God and then try to attack based on that straw man. Jesus clearly states He has the power to forgive sins. Meaning, God has the prerogative and power to do what God chooses to do. That upsets some people who would prefer to throw stones at a rather simplified binary/computerish model of a god. I generally just don't engage them. Whittling in any way on God's end of the stick is not Man's prerogative.

[ena]

Actually this is an ancient habit...and there are many outside of CofC (and out of religion) who enjoy spouting off about their caricature God and then try to attack based on that straw man. Jesus clearly states He has the power to forgive sins. Meaning, God has the prerogative and power to do what God chooses to do. That upsets some people who would prefer to throw stones at a rather simplified binary/computerish model of a god. I generally just don't engage them. Whittling in any way on God's end of the stick is not Man's prerogative.

That is true. I have witnessed the straw man God being built up. A perfect example is all other churches are going to Hell because they are related to the Catholic church. The idea of Emperor Constantine was that should be one Church. At that point of time the Church of Christ would be part of if it existed. The point is that there is no "we were there at the day of Pentecost." I consider that a bare faced lie from two perspectives. The second is the history of the CoC. Where are the ancient manuscripts in the CoC. They exist in the Vatican Library and the Orthodox Church. The truth is that God has reserved a remanent within those Churches. You have to look to see. They didn't look.

[sonicrainkrieg42]

Yeah, I always thought the preoccupation with Baptists was kinda funny. I think it has to do with the fact that most American CoCs are in the south, and Baptists are the most common denomination in the south, so they view them as their primary competition.

[ena]

Yeah, I always thought the preoccupation with Baptists was kinda funny. I think it has to do with the fact that most American CoCs are in the south, and Baptists are the most common denomination in the south, so they view them as their primary competition.

Accurate. I have seen Sword Drills in the Baptist Church that would put to shame anyone in the CoC. Whole Bible including the Old Testament. The particiant is asked a question and the scriptural answer is given from memory often giving the verse from memory. The CoC says they don't study the Bible. If you don't look you don't see. There are many types of Baptist most relate to their convention. I do agree with the CoC about local autonomy. It's one of the few things we agree on. Like your post.

[faithfyl]

There is a lady at work that is trying to get me to convert to Catholicism. It ain't gonna happen, but don't let anyone fool you the Catholics don' think their church is the one true church.

Do many Catholics try to convert people to their faith? Just curious. I've never really seen it.

[B.H.]

There is a lady at work that is trying to get me to convert to Catholicism. It ain't gonna happen, but don't let anyone fool you the Catholics don' think their church is the one true church.

Do many Catholics try to convert people to their faith? Just curious. I've never really seen it.

Yes. A few years back a bunch of Catholics who were CoC at one time were trying to convert all of us here.

[Cootie Brown]

Catholics are the only ones that actually have a historical claim to being the original Church. The Marcion Churches might disagree with that, but they didn't survive & the Carholic Church did. The Church of Christ was really late getting to the party.

[FinallyFree]

My mother thinks that the Catholic Church was originally the CofC, and then it got corrupted and became the Catholic Church.