Texas Monthly Magazine bum steer awards

[Sean]

Slavery was a very odd thing and because many factors including the laws, economics, inertia, habits, culture, society, and other realities, it was very difficult to end. Los of people knew it was absolutely horrible and indefensible. But how to end it? It was a huge system and really required some sort of mutual unison agreement of "everyone" to just change everything. I mean once it was entrenched how were people in large slave dependent areas really going to "just change" everything?

I see it in some ways similar to the current gun rights and ownership debate. Some people think a law ought to be passed and just get rid of the guns...but seriously, it is not an easy thing to "just change" and go away. And in some ways it is also like the nuke weapons and cold war...it is so hard to end these terrible entrenched systems and habits once they are established. These are system wide interlocked systems of behavior and thinking...they don't just stop near as easily as they get started.

Sure there is some merit to a states right discussion on some level, but slavery itself was not going to end easily even if it was on the decline.

[gordie91]

I agree, things don't change very quickly. Established institutions are difficult to change but it does not justify pragmatism, rationalization or ignoring because of status quo or some kind of nostalgia for the past.

I think, the state's right issue used today is a poor justification used today to dismiss the evil of slavery in the south and the evil of racism in the north 160 years ago. I fear too many of my southern CoC friends are afraid to face reality - force is wrong i.e. enslaving other men. The best example they claim to follow also does not force anyone to believe, repent, confess so why would these people consent to oppression? Because it is convenient living in the 20th and now the 21 st century now that emancipation and civil rights are the laws and it is convenient to chant slogans about federal encroachment. So why are they willing to support leaders that tax and spend and give money to organizations they don't believe in? Why don't they preach sermons about taxing and spending instead of bitching about a "war of northern aggression" and claiming the south was justified to institutionalize slavery because of the reserved powers right of the state?

I agree with the assessment about the moment in time that precipitated the civil war. My problem is with so-called, back to the bible, restore to the first century, true church people that still find a way to justify the terrible things of the past. That to me is the epitome of "holier than thou". And as Cliff Clavin would say, "It is a little known fact" that early Christians were often the target of persecution because the neighbors and authorities thought it was strange that they suddenly released their slaves. Why? It is because these new converts believed it was wrong to enslave and some even were martyred because of this belief. But we don't read that in Acts of The Apostles or in the Epistles so we don't have to do it, right? And to think, I haven't had coffee yet

[Sean]

I like your point about religious folks ought to speak out against forced tax and spending for organizations they do not agree with. And I am pretty it does happen. I am sure more than a few preach against the funding of abortion and Planned Parenthood. The Catholics fought against having to pay for birth control and perform abortions in their hospitals.

I don't know anyone in the CofC (or else where) that defends or justifies abusive slavery or abuse of people, but I am sure there are some. I do know people who are defensive from seemingly being held guilty for a bottomless and endless rage and guilt for things long in the past and which no one alive today had any part (good or bad). I do know people who are proud of the South and not gonna be made to feel shame for being from the South. Sweet Home Alabama...no one needs Neil Young around anyhow (plus he is from Canada). Is being proud of one's culture and background only wrong if one is from the South?

Slavery was well entrenched in the economy of southern colonies well before the reserved powers of the individual states. But good people such as Northern Quakers and even mill workers in England refused to buy or use the slave picked cotton, even to a hardship on themselves. We should have the same preaching about child and slave labor produced goods today. I don't know anyone who is in favor of abusing children and slaves to get a better smart phone or shoe. (but again, I am sure there are some out there).

[Ivy]

We should have the same preaching about child and slave labor produced goods today.

We do...by progressives.

h**ps://cleanclothes.org

*I still need Neil Young around.

[Sean]

We should have the same preaching about child and slave labor produced goods today.

We do...by progressives.

h**ps://cleanclothes.org

*I still need Neil Young around.

My point is that in fact we have always had people concerned about fair production, it is not something new and certainly not special and particular to some group such as "progressives". So since we have historically had such concerns, then therefore we should have today as well. It is to be expected. Nothing new under the sun and all that. I don't know anyone who is in favor of abusing children and slaves to get a better smart phone or shoe, "progressive" or not.

[Ivy]

Nothing new under the sun and all that. I don't know anyone who is in favor of abusing children and slaves to get a better smart phone or shoe, "progressive" or not.

And yet, here we are.

[faithfyl]

I don't know anyone in the CofC (or else where) that defends or justifies abusive slavery or abuse of people, but I am sure there are some. I).

I knew a man at H.U. (he was an ethnic minority, btw) who said slavery was probably okay because "it's in the Bible". I was appalled. But yes, there are some out there.

[Sean]

Again, I don't know anyone who is in favor of ABUSING children or slaves. But that is just me, seemingly others here know people who are in favor of ABUSING children or slaves. Nothing much surprises me anymore.

[Moogy]

Again, I don't know anyone who is in favor of ABUSING children or slaves. But that is just me, seemingly others here know people who are in favor of ABUSING children or slaves. Nothing much surprises me anymore.

But someone must be in favor of this abuse, since it happens all over the world—children are abused by relatives, women and children are forced into prostitution, becoming slaves in reality even if their abusers do not use that word. I hope I don’t personally know any of those people who approve of such abuse.

[Ivy]

Again, I don't know anyone who is in favor of ABUSING children or slaves. But that is just me, seemingly others here know people who are in favor of ABUSING children or slaves. Nothing much surprises me anymore.

But someone must be in favor of this abuse, since it happens all over the world—children are abused by relatives, women and children are forced into prostitution, becoming slaves in reality even if their abusers do not use that word. I hope I don’t personally know any of those people who approve of such abuse.

Moogy is right. And I would also include in that the corporations who turn their heads away from the sweat shops in third world countries which still utilize child labor and allow unsafe conditions. No, I do not know anyone personally who advocates that....but there are some large corporations who tacitly advocate it with their silence.