Early Christians versus Modern (US) Christians

[agricola]

So much so, that one early Christian leader thought they were separate gods entirely, and put together his own 'bible', which left out all the OT and good chunks of the NT as well. He wasn't successful and his ideas were labeled 'heretic' but the attitude is still there and still active.
Marcion, wasn't it?

[KLP]

Yet this "unchanging" God of the New Testament doesn't even marginally resemble the God described in the Old Testament.

Seems like exactly the same to me. From the Garden forward it has always been a "trust and obey" request with eventual consequences for opting otherwise. Speaking of not changing, Man has continually failed to do this trust and obey thing. But God has continually been patient with his chosen ones waiting for them to come back to him in simple trusting faith yet his patience does run out sometimes, even with the Jews. Yes, seems like the same faithful God and seems like same weak humans.

[GuitarHero]

Yet this "unchanging" God of the New Testament doesn't even marginally resemble the God described in the Old Testament.

Seems like exactly the same to me. From the Garden forward it has always been a "trust and obey" request with eventual consequences for opting otherwise. Speaking of not changing, Man has continually failed to do this trust and obey thing. But God has continually been patient with his chosen ones waiting for them to come back to him in simple trusting faith yet his patience does run out sometimes, even with the Jews. Yes, seems like the same faithful God and seems like same weak humans.

Are we talking about the same God that changed his mind about creation and wiped it all out with a flood? (Well, except his 8 favorites.)

Or the same one who authorized genocide on other nations and often sold his own nation into slavery?

[NeverAgain]

KLP, with all due respect, that is just empty talk and wishful thinking.

[KLP]

Are we talking about the same God that changed his mind about creation and wiped it all out with a flood? (Well, except his 8 favorites.)

Or the same one who authorized genocide on other nations and often sold his own nation into slavery?

I don't see how those events require a definition that God has changed himself...could have been according to an eternal plan or do to mercy or anger in a given situation. Doesn't mean that God has changed. The first covenant was never intended to be the final deal....thankfully.

[KLP]

KLP, with all due respect, that is just empty talk and wishful thinking.

whatever...so then point out the error if you can of the point about constancy of the "trust and obey" fundamental concept in the various dispensations.

[NeverAgain]

This:
"Speaking of not changing, Man has continually failed to do this trust and obey thing. But God has continually been patient with his chosen ones waiting for them to come back to him in simple trusting faith yet his patience does run out sometimes, even with the Jews. Yes, seems like the same faithful God and seems like same weak humans."

Empty talk. Platitudes. Meaningless chatter. Assumptions about a god that is "waiting" for people to do something, assertions about "his patience." What patience? Patient about what? What happens if this invisible, unheard from, never seen, god you are making assumptions about loses "his patience?" Let me tell you: not one damn thing. The world spins on as it always has, and good and bad things continue to happen.

"Man has continually failed to do this trust and obey thing," you say. Empty talk. Human beings have a mixed history of good and bad, as a species, as nations, as families or tribes, as individuals. That has nothing whatsoever to do with trusting or "obeying" any god.

"Faithful God and...same weak humans." Empty talk. Sounds like the meaningless platitudes we all heard growing up out of the pulpit or from that insufferable Sunday School teacher. Just as empty, meaningless as all the talk we hear about "god's glory." Empty, empty, meaningless chatter.

[KLP]

This:
"Speaking of not changing, Man has continually failed to do this trust and obey thing. But God has continually been patient with his chosen ones waiting for them to come back to him in simple trusting faith yet his patience does run out sometimes, even with the Jews. Yes, seems like the same faithful God and seems like same weak humans."

Empty talk. Platitudes. Meaningless chatter. Assumptions about a god that is "waiting" for people to do something, assertions about "his patience." What patience? Patient about what? What happens if this invisible, unheard from, never seen, god you are making assumptions about loses "his patience?" Let me tell you: not one damn thing. The world spins on as it always has, and good and bad things continue to happen.

"Man has continually failed to do this trust and obey thing," you say. Empty talk. Human beings have a mixed history of good and bad, as a species, as nations, as families or tribes, as individuals. That has nothing whatsoever to do with trusting or "obeying" any god.

"Faithful God and...same weak humans." Empty talk. Sounds like the meaningless platitudes we all heard growing up out of the pulpit or from that insufferable Sunday School teacher. Just as empty, meaningless as all the talk we hear about "god's glory." Empty, empty, meaningless chatter.

Right, so you have nothing. This is obviously a text based criticism, that God has changed from early scripture to late scripture. But you want to beg the question and say none of it is real. Sorry you were unable to grasp that and instead just want to make your points that God doesn't exist when the question is did God change. Your hobby horse topic is fine and all, just not this topic under consideration here.

[GuitarHero]

I just noticed this is in New Paths, so I don't know how much debating we should be doing here, but...

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can read both testaments and NOT see a massive difference in the God character between them. There are so many inconsistencies. Mr. "Kill Them All and Don't Even Spare the Women, Children and Puppies" God of the Old Testament was suddenly into children not bearing the guilt of their forefathers. The New Testament God had a lot of cheek to say "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, give him your cloak also" when he used to order the genocide of entire nations of "his enemies." This God, who is not willing that any should perish but that all should have eternal life, was not nearly so concerned with life when he decided to reboot creation with a flood or destroy entire cities with fire. This God who had massive rule books--which, by the way, no one could keep perfectly, because apart from being consistent, God's kind of a dick too--suddenly became a Pierce Brosnan fan and decided that Love Is All You Need.

The list of discrepancies is quite massive, and to cop that God violates his own characterization for some hidden reason is disingenuous. And frankly, I don't know why it would bring you comfort, because knowing that God plays fast and loose with his own rules pretty much makes him an [derogatory term].

[bnot]

I thought this was pretty interesting - it is a comparison (by one guy, admittedly) between what the first century Christians believed, behaved and taught versus what is 'fairly typical' of a particular sort of US Christian (aka fundamentalists such as coc) belief, behavior and teachings -

enjoy:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfu ... NjM5NzY4S0

holding all things in common?
totally pacifists?
sharing everything?
despising 'the world'?
ignoring 'worldly powers'?

Thank you, I enjoyed this link since it destroys the coc claim of "we're the church you can read about in the Bible". I always wondered growing up, If the coc is the church of the Bible, the true church, the perfect example of the early church, then why can't the "denominations" see that when they read their Bible? That question gets answered with "they don't want to hear the truth". No! How about that answer is frikkin false!