Knowledge of CoC preachers?

A place to snark and vent about CoC doctrine and/or our experiences in the CoC. This is a place for SUPPORT and AGREEMENT only, not a place to tell someone their experience and feelings are wrong, or why we disagree with them.
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longdistancerunner
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Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by longdistancerunner »

As I research the historical Jesus I find a lot of interesting things just from the gospels that I never remember hearing in any sermon or bible school class. Regardless of belief it seems to me now that CoC preachers really know very little about the synoptic gospels. They just never get into detail about things that happened after the resurrection for example (Christ eating, zombies, etc, how saw Jesus after resurrection). And I have never heard a good description in the difference in John vs the other three gospels. I wonder if in preacher schools and CoC universities they are taught a sanitized version of the gospels and Jesus's life to avoid the obvious contradictions (of course there is a whole subject of apologetics that attempts to explain contradictions). Or do they know the details and just don't think your average CoC member could understand the more complex stories? My observation is CoC preachers seem to be much more comfortable with the Old Testament and preach a lot about it despite it not being their holy book (just for history).
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agricola
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by agricola »

It seems to me that the better quality CoC preachers - the ones with college and seminary - know quite a lot, but also know that their congregations do NOT know much background at all, and the CoC as a whole is not into 'let's educate everybody to a higher level' but instead is more focused on pastoral care, so to speak.
So I think they - or some of them - are well aware of all that, and also do not believe it is useful or necessary to preach about any of it.

Just my impression!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
zeek
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by zeek »

The sad reality is that in the coC the gospels aren't of much importance not even the crucifixion and resurrection. The total emphasis was always on Paul's letters. EVERYTHING else took a back seat to the writings of Paul. Honestly, if they thought they could get away with it they would rename the denomination "the church of Paul".
"All things are difficult before they are easy."(found in a fortune cookie)
"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the oppressed. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Forgetting isn't healing." Elie Wiesel
Shane R
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by Shane R »

How many others heard the Gospel described as: facts to be believed, commands to be obeyed, and promises to be received? Working within that framework, the Gospels become facts to be believed. They are taken at face value and the preaching quickly passes on to other talking points. I don't think most CoC preachers are very good at drawing out a secondary meaning or any sort of application from the Gospel pericopaes. Their obsession with individual verses rather than paragraphs or pericopaes does not help them get the big picture either.
longdistancerunner
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by longdistancerunner »

Shane R wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:28 pm How many others heard the Gospel described as: facts to be believed, commands to be obeyed, and promises to be received? Working within that framework, the Gospels become facts to be believed. They are taken at face value and the preaching quickly passes on to other talking points. I don't think most CoC preachers are very good at drawing out a secondary meaning or any sort of application from the Gospel pericopaes. Their obsession with individual verses rather than paragraphs or pericopaes does not help them get the big picture either.
They always seemed to me more comfortable with material in the Old Testament. There they don't encounter contradictions or if they are there they are readily explainable. But with the CoC beliefs why even bother with the OT?
zeek
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by zeek »

longdistancerunner wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:45 pm
Shane R wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:28 pm How many others heard the Gospel described as: facts to be believed, commands to be obeyed, and promises to be received? Working within that framework, the Gospels become facts to be believed. They are taken at face value and the preaching quickly passes on to other talking points. I don't think most CoC preachers are very good at drawing out a secondary meaning or any sort of application from the Gospel pericopaes. Their obsession with individual verses rather than paragraphs or pericopaes does not help them get the big picture either.
They always seemed to me more comfortable with material in the Old Testament. There they don't encounter contradictions or if they are there they are readily explainable. But with the CoC beliefs why even bother with the OT?
Because Paul said some place that "they were written for our learning..."
"All things are difficult before they are easy."(found in a fortune cookie)
"We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the oppressed. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Forgetting isn't healing." Elie Wiesel
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Moogy
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by Moogy »

I have found that many preachers/pastors in other Christian denominations don’t preach everything they learned in seminary. In all my years in the United Methodist church, I heard only one pastor say in a service that God didn’t tell the Bible writers exactly what words to write down. She said that the writers had an experience with God, and they wrote about it. She said this in a children's sermon. Perhaps the kids will remember this.

Most of the people in the pews believe in literal word-for-word, infallible inspiration, even though that is not the official doctrine of the United Methodist Church. This explains why it was so easy for negative influencers to split that church recently.
Moogy
NI COC for over 30 years, but out for over 40 years now
Mostly Methodist for about 30 years.
Left the UMC in 2019 based on their decision to condemn LGBT+ persons and to discipline Pastors who perform same-sex marriages
longdistancerunner
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by longdistancerunner »

Most of the people in the pews believe in literal word-for-word, infallible inspiration, even though that is not the official doctrine of the United Methodist Church. This explains why it was so easy for negative influencers to split that church recently.
[/quote]

A preacher I knew in his lessons used to say the Bible was literal word-for-word infallible. That you could not explain away passages as allegorical. Then 15 minutes later he would be discussing a piece of scripture and say "this is allegorical".
Gauronaolo
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Re: Knowledge of CoC preachers?

Post by Gauronaolo »

Yeah, I’ve noticed the same thing. A lot of those post-resurrection moments, like Jesus eating or the "zombie" thing, aren't really discussed much in church, which is odd considering how interesting they are. It makes me wonder if preachers avoid certain details because they don’t want to get into the more complex or potentially contradictory parts of the gospels. I’ve always found the difference between John and the synoptics interesting too, but I don’t think I've ever heard anyone really explain it well, even in Bible school. I think maybe it's just easier for preachers to focus on the Old Testament since it’s more straightforward for most people.
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