Most prophets appear to have led fairly reasonable lives.
Some of them didn't prophecy any more than the one time.
Some lived in more 'interesting' times. Elijah had a tough time of it, and so did Jeremiah.
But there were court prophets (like Nathan) and random groups of prophets out in the country side.
Some prophets were women (Hulda). Not every prophet had a secretary writing down what he or she had to say, so we only have a limited selection.
Ask about Judaism
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History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
Interesting view. So Ezequiel's prophesy against Tyre said that Tyre would be barren and used to dry fishing nets. As far as I can see Tyre was destroyed by Alexander the Great and continued to occupied. It is now a peninsula because Alexander used rubble to make a causeway out to the Island. Link supplied. This does not appear to be a future prediction? You may be right.agricola wrote: And why? First you have to understand that 'prophet' in Hebrew doesn't mean 'predicts the future'. Instead, a prophet conveyed a message FROM God TO the people (the ones standing right there). Any and all 'future predictions' are invariably along the lines of 'if you keep doing X, then Y will happen' or else they are comfort promises 'this will end and peace will be restored/we will return to Jerusalem/ whatever'.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+26
Re: Ask about Judaism
Are there fishing nets? Seriously, Ezekiel was awfully fond of metaphorical statements (dry bones - remember that?) so I should think that statement you bring up should fall into the category of 'if you (Tyre) keep doing X, then Y will happen' - which may be a 'future prediction' but no more magical than if I tell my kids not to drink and drive or they'll have an accident/get arrested or whatever.
That doesn't make me a prophet though - just an observant human being.
That doesn't make me a prophet though - just an observant human being.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
Nevertheless, the Hebrew 'navi' which is translated into English as 'prophet' means 'spokesperson'. Someone who stands up and speaks for others.
And that is how Jews use the term. Moses was a 'navi', Isaiah was a 'navi', Jeremiah was a 'navi'. They spoke for God.
And that is how Jews use the term. Moses was a 'navi', Isaiah was a 'navi', Jeremiah was a 'navi'. They spoke for God.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
I heard it a million times, the definition is.... "one who sets forth"
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Re: Ask about Judaism
that's pretty good: 'set's forth' the message - it is directed TO the people of that time.
Look, the fact that people have read those same messages ever SINCE that time, and have found meaning and references to their own period, is certainly relevant, but it is very important to always remember that the message was designed for and originally delivered to, a very different audience. If you lose track of the original 'meaning', then you are losing a lot of information ABOUT the message which should help to understand it. MAYBE there is a relation to something 'now', but maybe there is not - and if there is, it is probably not because the original message was directed to YOU at all, merely that the situation is or may be similar.
Look, the fact that people have read those same messages ever SINCE that time, and have found meaning and references to their own period, is certainly relevant, but it is very important to always remember that the message was designed for and originally delivered to, a very different audience. If you lose track of the original 'meaning', then you are losing a lot of information ABOUT the message which should help to understand it. MAYBE there is a relation to something 'now', but maybe there is not - and if there is, it is probably not because the original message was directed to YOU at all, merely that the situation is or may be similar.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
Well I feel that you maybe added to the definition I posted or miss understood what I meant, I did not mean to say that if I did. IMO, nothing in the definition requires or insists that "one who sets forth" has to only be setting forth something specifically and only messages directed to the people in extant at the time. That is certainly and obviously the case when the message was to a particular person or event. But I feel no reason or basis to make it a universal statement about all messages from God or a limitation such that God could/would not have possibly ever designed or intended a message to carry an immediate and future meaning. But yes, the people today who take bits of Daniel and mix it with The Revelation and predict the end of the world on a given date seem bogus to me. It is the stuff in the middle, between the extremes where we disagree and that is because we disagree on Jesus. Do not mean to argue...I will not post on this anymore.agricola wrote:that's pretty good: 'set's forth' the message - it is directed TO the people of that time.
Look, the fact that people have read those same messages ever SINCE that time, and have found meaning and references to their own period, is certainly relevant, but it is very important to always remember that the message was designed for and originally delivered to, a very different audience. If you lose track of the original 'meaning', then you are losing a lot of information ABOUT the message which should help to understand it. MAYBE there is a relation to something 'now', but maybe there is not - and if there is, it is probably not because the original message was directed to YOU at all, merely that the situation is or may be similar.
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Re: Ask about Judaism
No problem klp, feel free to post - I am just - obviously, on a thread called 'ask about Judaism' - presenting what the Jewish position is. I'm not arguing against the Christian position or opinion EXCEPT when explaining how Judaism DIFFERS by using a compare and contrast method.
I could make that clearer - sorry.
Just as a BTW - we don't really consider Daniel to be a prophet at all (the prophecy in Daniel is definitely 'I am not predicting the future' sort of stuff) but that book is put into the 'Writings' section of the Hebrew Bible. The Writings are considered human products, useful for edification, maybe, but not 'the word of God' in any particular sense. Other books placed into the Writings include Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Ruth, Chronicles, Lamentations and Esther.
Most scholars of literature place the writing of Daniel quite 'late' - around 160 BCE perhaps, well after the events related in the book of Daniel. So the author is writing about the relatively recent past AS IF it were being written prior to the events. This is based partly on the fact that Daniel includes some Greek 'borrow words' plus late Aramaic - neither of those would have been known in the fifth century BCE (the time in which the book of Daniel is set) but would have been current sometime after Alexander the Great (late fourth century BCE).
I could make that clearer - sorry.
Just as a BTW - we don't really consider Daniel to be a prophet at all (the prophecy in Daniel is definitely 'I am not predicting the future' sort of stuff) but that book is put into the 'Writings' section of the Hebrew Bible. The Writings are considered human products, useful for edification, maybe, but not 'the word of God' in any particular sense. Other books placed into the Writings include Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Ruth, Chronicles, Lamentations and Esther.
Most scholars of literature place the writing of Daniel quite 'late' - around 160 BCE perhaps, well after the events related in the book of Daniel. So the author is writing about the relatively recent past AS IF it were being written prior to the events. This is based partly on the fact that Daniel includes some Greek 'borrow words' plus late Aramaic - neither of those would have been known in the fifth century BCE (the time in which the book of Daniel is set) but would have been current sometime after Alexander the Great (late fourth century BCE).
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
So, anyway - it is now Shavuot (or at least, it will be this evening and tomorrow!) Shavuot means 'weeks' and also means 'vows' (one of those pesky homonyms I guess) and the usual English is Pentecost (Fifty) because to get to Shavuot, you start counting the second day of Passover and you count seven weeks and a day and there you are (50).
Shavuot is 'the Festival of First Fruits' and in Israel this is late spring/early summer, and the early fruits and the barley harvest are ripe. When the temple stood, farmers brought their 'first fruits' (samples of the early harvest) to the temple for the ceremony. Shavuot is also considered to be the anniversary of the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai.
Nowadays, there are special Torah readings at the synagogues and the Yizkor service (that is a memorial service for the dead, and Yizkor occurs on several holidays), and at home, you decorate with flowers and plants, and for some reason, eat dairy foods (hurray for cheesecake) and not meat (at least three explanations for that, none of which sound super-compelling).
It is also tradition to start a young child off on their first 'learning', usually the alef-bet, and give them honey (because learning Torah is sweet as honey), and in many Reform (and some Conservative) synagogue, this is graduation day for older Hebrew school students, aka 'Confirmation'.
So - we invited company over last night for Shabbat and in honor of Shavuot (which actually starts tonight) we had a dairy meal (cheese and broccoli quiche with cheesecake for dessert) plus a big plate of fresh fruits (strawberries and black berries and grapes and such). It was fun, but got pretty loud - especially when DD3 discovered one of our guests went to the same college she did - and after that, they monopolized the conversation pretty thoroughly.
Shavuot is 'the Festival of First Fruits' and in Israel this is late spring/early summer, and the early fruits and the barley harvest are ripe. When the temple stood, farmers brought their 'first fruits' (samples of the early harvest) to the temple for the ceremony. Shavuot is also considered to be the anniversary of the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai.
Nowadays, there are special Torah readings at the synagogues and the Yizkor service (that is a memorial service for the dead, and Yizkor occurs on several holidays), and at home, you decorate with flowers and plants, and for some reason, eat dairy foods (hurray for cheesecake) and not meat (at least three explanations for that, none of which sound super-compelling).
It is also tradition to start a young child off on their first 'learning', usually the alef-bet, and give them honey (because learning Torah is sweet as honey), and in many Reform (and some Conservative) synagogue, this is graduation day for older Hebrew school students, aka 'Confirmation'.
So - we invited company over last night for Shabbat and in honor of Shavuot (which actually starts tonight) we had a dairy meal (cheese and broccoli quiche with cheesecake for dessert) plus a big plate of fresh fruits (strawberries and black berries and grapes and such). It was fun, but got pretty loud - especially when DD3 discovered one of our guests went to the same college she did - and after that, they monopolized the conversation pretty thoroughly.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Ask about Judaism
Thank's Agricola. If I understand correctly a prophet may or may not be predicting the future or he may or may not be a prophet for future prediction in the Jewish sense. It changes a few things.