Rate YOUR CoC - is it a cult?

[Ivy]

Whenever I've reviewed "cult" descriptions, my past cofceez have never quite met criteria for being full-blown
cults -- probably because there was a certain amount of self responsibility / dogma internalization encouraged. That's not to say, however, that they didn't do their full measure of damage to their members....thus we have an excofc support board. What they felt they couldn't rightly demand was just integrated into our DNA while we slept on our mothers' laps during services.

[margin overa]

Whenever I've reviewed "cult" descriptions, my past cofceez have never quite met criteria for being full-blown
cults -- probably because there was a certain amount of self responsibility / dogma internalization encouraged. That's not to say, however, that they didn't do their full measure of damage to their members....thus we have an excofc support board. What they felt they couldn't rightly demand was just integrated into our DNA while we slept on our mothers' laps during services.

Yes, that's true also. There was - and is - plenty of damage done without those doing the damage participating in overtly cultish behavior. As is really true in such situations, the damage gets done via programming of the heart and mind, and is thus difficult to shake off.

All of these experiences fall on a continuum, to be fair. I've posted before about a good friend of mine who grew up in the KJV ultra-conservative Texas Baptists, and his stories of some of their in-church behavior will make your hackles rise...really abusive stuff. In basic doctrinal tenets, many of them aren't all that different from the hardline CofC, but in practice, there's a pretty big divide.

[agricola]

I grew up in a 'normal' suburban white bread mainstream coc - and I'd give it at least 90, which is middling cultish. Mostly based on doctrinal rigidity and attitude toward information from outside approved sources.

[KLP]

...I'm beginning to see why the 'discipling' (ICOC) movement had so much traction: people WANTED (and want) more out of 'church' and more out of 'community' than is provided by a typical coc.

Very much my experience. I wanted so much more but it just wasn't possible to sustain in my experience. So I gravitated to (or attracted) the oddballs, thinkers, and those that were bit different. Still I wanted the touchy feely stuff but it was dangerous and put you in the loopy category taking you out of fast track to eldership. So I wanted more emotion content and deeper friendships but it seemed like the only ones open to such things in the CofC already had a lot of whacko stuff going on...rarely felt equally yolked as it were. And then once things would be on track to be more emotionally connected it would always become a sort of clique and be sort of cultish in itself, and certainly viewed from outside as a "movement" or "they think they are so special". Yes, wanting and promoting a more pronounced emotional component was seen as a threat and derided and shunned. Starting a new house churchy thing eased a lot of that pressure to not be so different but in the end I think each family had pressure from relatives to return to the more straight path of NI-cofc behavior. I never figured out how to get the good things of a cult without the bad things also. And yes having a dominant charismatic and/or respected personality was always most beneficial in keeping things on an even keel. It is always a human org in the end. So I have given up, just go it alone, keep my church thoughts to myself as best I can around church folks.

[agricola]

So I wanted more emotion content and deeper friendships

Yeah - that: something a typical coc is poor at providing, and suspicious of when introduced.

How can you have deeper friendships when 'the facade' of perfection is so important?

[KLP]

exactly...we found out that what we thought was a good and honest friend was also a nut case in that she felt she had to "confess" or "report" or talk to the elders about every conversation she had including us. We found out much later after we were gone that she even gone to the elders asking about her 10yr-ish child attending a children's birthday party at our house and whether she should or not....because ya know there might be mixed bathing.

So yeah, when you open up then you may get ratted out to the leadership.

One time during a work day I made a passing joke about what I thought was funny about the head elders...Dilbert kind of observation, harmless. Someone reported it to the head elder and he caught me next Sunday evening service and read me the riot act about honor towards the elders and how I could not even joke about them. I had forgotten about this stuff until this thread...wow, there was some crazy stuff going on there. People lived in fear of the head elder and nutso preacher, such that they constantly praised them and/or make excuses for them and their anger/meanness saying things like "well ya know, that is just how he is...he has always been that way". yeah...so if they do not have to be "transformed" to be Christ-like then why does anyone else? Whateves..I need to stop trying to recall these bad memories.

[NeverAgain]

I never really thought of the Church of Christ denomination as a cult.

A cult wants to control everything you think and do. Period.

The Church of Christ wants to control what you say out loud and what you appear to do. They are extremely tolerant of personal hypocrisy, as long as things go according to schedule three times a week, one hour at a time.

Both will monitor and punish non-compliance, but a cult is far more encompassing.

[B.H.]

Several years ago the big church of christ in my town had a big split. This time the people with money got up and left because they didn't think the church was doing a lot of things it should be doing, ect. They went over to to the town ten miles away and became members there. From what I hear that church is doing very well and doing a lot of things to make that town better---helping the poor, doing civic volunteering, ect.

Anyway, about 5 years ago a man who was elder at the big church here came in at work and talked about the split. He made the comment those people who left were giving him and the other elders a big headache. I asked them what they are doing and he said they are trying to get people to leave and go to their church. One family or two left and went to the Baptist Church and had the audacity to write letters to church members and told them they would go to hell if they didn't join the Baptist Church . He said it upset a lot of folks being told they were in the wrong churh and going to hell.

I told him "Look, if these people are not happy going to your church let them go. If it is over matters of opinion wish them well. Let them do what they want and ya'll do what ya'll want and let's see how it plays out. You may learn something. And if it is a doctrinally thing it's best to part. I know you want those people at your church but they are not going to be happy with your doctrines or way of doing things and you are always going to consider them suspect because of that. Just go your own ways and don't fret each other. And a little light bulb must have gone on in his head and he said "You know, that is actually good idea".

BH played the part of counselor and see I made that elder feel a lot better.

[KLP]

The Baptist Church cannot be right since it is named after John the Baptist ( I learned this only recently right here on this site) . Plus it didn't start until much, much later. Oh and they have music. 3 strikes right there. Them people should spend a little less time writin' letters and spend more time readin' letters from Paul. That is what you should have told him BH...if you were a true friend.

[Ivy]

Very glad to now be on the outside of all of this cray-cray behavior and dogma.

Outside looking in....