Keeping up appearances

[B.H.]

I think that one of the main motives that drives this kind of behavior is the desire of the CoC denomination to deliberately try to be 'different' and 'holier' and more 'set-apart' than other religious groups. The thinking sort of goes like "If the Baptists are going to walk in through the front door, then we will go around to the back and climb in through the window, because it's wrong to do anything the way the other denominations do". Of course, they will then need to find a verse and rip it out of context in order to try to justify their actions.

There was a prominent preacher whose book I read that suggested doing some things to build a gap between the CoC and other religious groups for the very sake of creating a difference. If I wasn't the paranoid nut conspiracy theorist I am I'd think some CoC people back in the day studied group think, propaganda, and psychology to enable them to drive a drift between their church members and the rest of society on purposein order to create a "us vs enemy" mentality. But them again maybe they didn't. It was just the perverse and manipulative nature of those men coming out, doing what they knew by instict to do to accomplish their goals.

[FinallyFree]

I remember my mother really pushing the "what would people think" button. She told me never to go parking with a boy because what would someone think if they saw me, or what if someone saw me kissing a boy. I remember my grandmother making a big deal over a short skirt and saying I would bring "shame and reproach on the church". When I was dating my husband, we spent time alone at his apartment. My mother said what would people think if they saw me going in his apartment.
Years ago, my husband and I were afraid of ordering drinks in restaurants and someone seeing us. Now we don't worry about it.

[Lev]

Years ago, my husband and I were afraid of ordering drinks in restaurants and someone seeing us. Now we don't worry about it.

Yeah, lots of us have had that problem. Even Jesus:

"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard...'" (Matthew 11:19)

Jesus knew he was in the right and that it was perfectly acceptable for him to eat food and drink alcohol, both in moderation. (For some reason, by the way, the COC is only concerned about the latter.) If others were going to accuse him of gluttony and drunkenness, well then (and here I paraphrase Jesus), "haters gonna hate."

Lev

[Ivy]

A very dear friend of mine (she'll know who she is) once noted that [in each cofc] there is a "phantom offendee" who seems to
wield a great deal of control and influence over the policies of individual congregations. The anonymous person, or
"phantom offendee", is always just on the brink of stumbling, and decisions are routinely made around that person's fragile sensibilities so they won't "stumble" and be at risk of hell fire.

Ex: Jesus drank wine, but since "some" are so vulnerable to stumbling none of us should ever drink wine.

Ex: Jesus never said anything about cell phones in church, so since "some" (e.g., resident phantom offendees) are against innovation, we should ban all cell phones in the building.

[margin overa]

Yeah, the offendee population of the CofC is a significant minority, twisting a bit of scripture to tailor the church environment as much as possible to their preferences. My wife used to fume about one little lady who wielded extraordinary power in a church we attended, and the elders seemed to think it was the better part of valor to humor her. She had no strong family connection, wasn't well off, and not terribly knowledgeable outside of her KJV, but by dint of sheer persistent complaint and perpetual focus on who and what were offending her, she bent the whole congregation to her will.

When we went over to a 10 a.m. class time and 11 a.m. service, she fussed and complained to the eldership until they reverted to the earlier hour times - all against the expressed wishes of the majority of the church. She dictated class materials, where they bought their supplies, just all kinds of things. My wife was teaching a children's Sunday class, and the course materials she'd chosen didn't meet the lady's approval, and soon she was being approached by the elder who ran the education program to "reconsider", which she refused to do. "Who's teaching the class, me or her?" didn't seem to sway him, as he just smiled indulgently and said, "Oh, sister ____'s a little high strung, but she's here rain or shine for everything, and we all cut her a little slack," as if that was the knock-down argument. When I suggested to the eldership that they'd badly interpreted the "weaker brother" scriptures to allow people like sister ____ to wield such power, I was told my wife and I needed to search our hearts and make sure we were acting charitably. I was a much younger guy then, and told them to search their backsides and make sure they actually had spines, which didn't go over very well.

[Ivy]

told them to search their backsides and make sure they actually had spines, which didn't go over very well.

Interesting dynamic with the lady of perpetual offense. I wonder why she had so much power; maybe connections in
the cofc Vatican? Mob connections? Or maybe she had some dirt on the head elder. They needed to find a pair and tell her to get over herself.

[KLP]

In our case, it was generally phrased "some of the older members" which I think was a cover as much as anything. The head elder and preacher needed to be in control and seen as "the best". It was like the unreasonable anger of King Saul...anyone who took the attention away from them had to be destroyed. We lasted less than 2 yrs. They never did understand that responding to direct questions and comments with phrases like "you need to go home and pray and consider your salvation and make sure you are right with God" was not going to divert me from the topic of the direct question. They were never honest and I eventually saw it was how they dealt with everyone they disagreed with, it was always character assault instead of honest response to the topic. So they just used "the older members" as a club to beat you into line, I doubt any of them ever gave them as much feedback as they were claiming.

[B.H.]

A very dear friend of mine (she'll know who she is) once noted that [in each cofc] there is a "phantom offendee" who seems to
wield a great deal of control and influence over the policies of individual congregations. The anonymous person, or
"phantom offendee", is always just on the brink of stumbling, and decisions are routinely made around that person's fragile sensibilities so they won't "stumble" and be at risk of hell fire.

Ex: Jesus drank wine, but since "some" are so vulnerable to stumbling none of us should ever drink wine.

Ex: Jesus never said anything about cell phones in church, so since "some" (e.g., resident phantom offendees) are against innovation, we should ban all cell phones in the building.

Ivy rose drank wine and talked on her cell phone in church before services. I'm telling the preacher!

[margin overa]

In our case, it was generally phrased "some of the older members" which I think was a cover as much as anything....they just used "the older members" as a club to beat you into line, I doubt any of them ever gave them as much feedback as they were claiming.

I don't know - some of those older members do a lot of behind-the-scenes scurrying and whispering (or not even bothering to whisper). Lots of churches are like the small town council; certain relationships have more pull than others, for whatever reasons...family connections, previous relationships or favors done, even business relationships. Although claiming that certain "others" have given the eldership feedback is a convenient practical appeal to maintain status quo ("We'd like to do things differently, but so-and-so is opposed, they've been here forever and are faithful, elderly saints, so we can't move forward", when in fact nothing of the sort has happened).

[KLP]

Well these older members were all kin to the leadership families, and the claim was that they would become "confused" because they could not follow a song leader or if the number of songs changed, etc. And of course confusion is akin to chaos and God is not the author or chaos...so bah-dah-bing things must be decent and in order meaning no variation from standard format. What I finally came to conclude after many issues was that they were unhappy people and disliked anyone who seemed to be doing anything to make "services" enjoyable.