Christmas

[Moogy]

My family didn't celebrate Christmas religiously either. But we always had a tree and presents, just no nativity set. When I left the church of Christ I ran out and bought religious ornaments for the tree. And I really started enjoying religious Christmas songs.

[KLP]

But you cannot have a ...snowman without causing people to think we were agreeing with and supporting Christmas and Catholicism. Or so the thinking went.

I always thought the snowman cards were cofc approved. WTF????

Come Ivy, you know it is like euphemisms...you are just trying to get as close to the line without crossing it....so that is the wrong attitude. You need to get as far away from it as possible if you really want to be on God's side...you do not want to wonder over to close to the fence and look at that greener grass. So the snowman may look all harmless and fun, but it is a slippery slope and before you know it you will be cavorting in Hell with them papist.

[Lev]

My family didn't celebrate Christmas religiously either. But we always had a tree and presents, just no nativity set. When I left the church of Christ I ran out and bought religious ornaments for the tree. And I really started enjoying religious Christmas songs.

So your family kept the commercial aspects of Christmas but ditched the religious ones? Cool, mine did too.

Lev

[agricola]

My family didn't celebrate Christmas religiously either. But we always had a tree and presents, just no nativity set. When I left the church of Christ I ran out and bought religious ornaments for the tree. And I really started enjoying religious Christmas songs.

So your family kept the commercial aspects of Christmas but ditched the religious ones? Cool, mine did too.

Lev

Yep. You know, at least the JW's are CONSISTENT. We weren't. Christmas and Easter were almost totally non-religious in our house too. In fact, we didn't participate in any RELIGIOUS aspects of either holiday - no caroling, no nativity scenes, no acknowledgement of the origins of either holiday as being religious-based at all.

[cathym]

Caroling was OK, but only if it was either a capella, or non-religious songs (Jingle Bells, Good King Wenceslas, etc.) If it was a song about the religious aspects of Christmas, there better not be instruments!

[Lev]

Caroling was OK, but only if it was either a capella, or non-religious songs (Jingle Bells, Good King Wenceslas, etc.) If it was a song about the religious aspects of Christmas, there better not be instruments!

Given that Christmas itself is a religious holiday, it seems that the line between religious and non-religious Christmas songs would be a blurry one indeed. There's no need to restrict that to Christmas songs, either. Many songs straddle the so-called line between sacred and secular. How does a hardline proscription against instrumental accompaniment to religious songs deal with such ambiguity?

Lev

[Ivy]

Good King Wenceslas

Wait.....isn't that papist? Something about the "Feast of Stephen''? And then there's
"Saint Agnes fountain".......

Oh, it's a slippery slope indeed when ye go a caroling.....

**********

Good King Wenceslas looked out
on the feast of Stephen,
when the snow lay round about,
deep and crisp and even.
Brightly shown the moon that night,
though the frost was cruel,
when a poor man came in sight,
gathering winter fuel.

Hither, page, and stand by me.
If thou know it telling:
yonder peasant, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?
Sire, he lives a good league hence,
underneath the mountain,
right against the forest fence
by Saint Agnes fountain.

Bring me flesh, and bring me wine.
Bring me pine logs hither.
Thou and I will see him dine
when we bear them thither.
Page and monarch, forth they went,
forth they went together
through the rude wind's wild lament
and the bitter weather.

Sire, the night is darker now,
and the wind blows stronger.
Fails my heart, I know not how -
I can go no longer.
Mark my footsteps good, my page,
tread thou in them boldly:
Thou shalt find the winter's rage
freeze thy blood less coldly.

In his master's step he trod,
where the snow lay dented.
Heat was in the very sod
which the saint had printed.
Therefore, Christian men, be sure,
wealth or rank possessing,
ye who now will bless the poor
shall yourselves find blessing

[agricola]

Good King Wencelas' car backed out
On a piece of Stephen...

I forget where I learned that.

[cathym]

Good King Wenceslas

Wait.....isn't that papist? Something about the "Feast of Stephen''? And then there's
"Saint Agnes fountain".......

Oh, it's a slippery slope indeed when ye go a caroling.....

Ah, but that doesn't count, because those aren't in the Bible, see...

[B.H.]

Caroling was OK, but only if it was either a capella, or non-religious songs (Jingle Bells, Good King Wenceslas, etc.) If it was a song about the religious aspects of Christmas, there better not be instruments!

Wenceslas was only a duke who was retroactively declared to be a "king" after his murder. And he was a Catholic too. And he was in his late 20's when murdered so what do you say about all of those pictures in the caroling books depicting him as an old man, huh, huh? So how could he have been good if he were Catholic?

Seriously, from what we know from the records of the time Wenceslas was probably a pretty good guy who did his best. He made sure the poor were fed and clothed. He was murdered by his own brother to take the dukedom for himself. The Holy Roman Emperor Otto declared him retroactively to be a king within the realm in an honorary sense, kinda like people without advanced degrees who do good deeds or good works are granted honorary doctorates as a way to show appreciation and acknowledgement for their labors.