An Open Mind?

[MusicMan826]

While browsing facebook this evening I somehow came across some COC page and was reading comments regarding instruments in worship. This one woman commented that she had read and studied the bible her whole life, but didn't see a problem with using instruments in worship. Of course the poor woman got bombarded with COCers telling her that she was wrong and that she needs to change her ways because it would be such a shame to lose her soul over a piano. What perhaps irritates me most of all is the fact that all these people were telling this woman that she needs to read her bible "with an open mind". I heard that term a lot growing up and it didn't take long to realize that "an open mind" meant "come to the same conclusion that we do".

This is a major problem I have with the COC. Anyone who disagrees with them on any given subject isn't reading the bible with an open mind, and is disagreeing with God. Honestly, how arrogant can you get? The "If you disagree with us, you're disagreeing with God" attitude is, in my opinion, the biggest thing driving people away from the COC. I've been out of this church for almost four years now, yet every now and then I find myself looking up and reading articles and find the comments full of mind-blowing arrogance. So many ways you can interpret different parts of the bible and they respond with, "God doesn't want us to interpret it, he wants us to read it and go along with what he clearly says!" They claim the bible is so clear on every issue, yet the COC itself is constantly splitting and dividing because people have different interpretations of scriptures. I find it ridiculous how they urge anyone who disagrees with them to "read with an open mind", yet they're so close-minded they immediately dismiss anyone who disagrees with them on any subject, no matter how big or small, and say that they're selfishly changing the word of God to fit their own personal agenda, and calling them false teachers, wolves in sheep's clothing, etc.

[Opie]

You are absolutely 100% correct about the arrogance problem in the CoC. I'm not sure if it's possible for anyone to have a more arrogant attitude than "If you disagree with us, you're disagreeing with God" but I've seen it many, many times. I used to ask questions about CoC doctrine and was told that I needed to read and study the bible with an 'open mind'. The funny thing is that when I did that, I read and studied my way right out of the CoC!

[B.H.]

I giggle how in their arguments with the anti-class brethren the mainliners will run to the Old Testament to find their Sunday School (Moses divided the people into different groups sizes to teach the law, ect) and it was somehow okay to get Sunday School from the OT but you couldn't get instruments from it. WTF? And to show the stupidity of the non-class people instead of calling them on it they run to the OT and qoute "My doctrine shall drop as rain" in favor of the non-class position.

[Ivy]

I seem to remember being told "don't be so open minded your brains fall out" by some cofc person along the way.

[agricola]

I seem to remember being told "don't be so open minded your brains fall out" by some cofc person along the way.

Only once? I heard that OFTEN.

[KLP]

That technique of putting the other person in opposition to God and claiming to be on God's side is pretty standard. It is the technique used fairly often with any authority be a consensus or leaders or whatever. You just place the "other" person in declared opposition and then you announce they are arguing against the authority. I heard it recently on some radio preacher (these guys that start and run their own church usually)...they get "a word form the Lord" about them staying at that church or doing this or that...if you disagree then you are disagreeing with God because hey, they got "a word" from the Lord. One guy the other day even had to tell the Lord that one word was not enough, he was going to need "another" word.

Reminded me of the fleece being wet or dry and needing another memo from God.

The comedy radio show Phil Hendrie (not to everyone's taste) used this technique everyday. He had these character voices who had some credential and they would say outrageous things and claims. People would call up and try to prove the "made up guest" wrong and the fake guy would always bring up his credentials as being an authority. And then Phil Hendrie in his straight voice would sort of side with the caller but then admit that they "guest" was an authority. Hilarious stuff...IMO

[Pitts S2C]

If they tell you to have an 'open mind' then obviously theirs is closed!

[B.H.]

My Western Civilization college class teacher was an ordained minister for the Methodist Church and had his PhD in some sort of theological field. One day we had a few minutes left and he, I and a few others got into a friendly discussion about whether David and Jonathan were gay lovers. He made the argument that they were and I made the argument that they weren't. At the end of the discussion everyone felt they had to follow what he said because he had the PhD.

Later I had to go drop something off at his office for a woman in need at his church. He giggled at me and said "You know BH, you actually countered every argument I made about David and Jonathan" and then giggled some more. I asked him why they still listened to him "Why I have the PhD and you don't" and then laughed some more.

[williamray123]

I giggle how in their arguments with the anti-class brethren the mainliners will run to the Old Testament to find their Sunday School (Moses divided the people into different groups sizes to teach the law, ect) and it was somehow okay to get Sunday School from the OT but you couldn't get instruments from it. WTF? And to show the stupidity of the non-class people instead of calling them on it they run to the OT and qoute "My doctrine shall drop as rain" in favor of the non-class position.

That's a good point. I think about that a lot. Church of Christ folks have no problem running to the OT to prove their point, but if you point them to Ps 149 or 150 - full of all kind of musical instruments, that is the OLD testament, not applicable to us. Then if you show them Ps 119:160 that says the law is eternal, they go into an explanation that it means something other than eternal.

They say "denominations" problem is they don't study the bible, but if you do know your bible, you can show their inconsistency. "We just follow the bible" turns into "That verse doesn't really mean what it clearly says".

[agricola]

I giggle how in their arguments with the anti-class brethren the mainliners will run to the Old Testament to find their Sunday School (Moses divided the people into different groups sizes to teach the law, ect) and it was somehow okay to get Sunday School from the OT but you couldn't get instruments from it. WTF? And to show the stupidity of the non-class people instead of calling them on it they run to the OT and qoute "My doctrine shall drop as rain" in favor of the non-class position.

That's a good point. I think about that a lot. Church of Christ folks have no problem running to the OT to prove their point, but if you point them to Ps 149 or 150 - full of all kind of musical instruments, that is the OLD testament, not applicable to us. Then if you show them Ps 119:160 that says the law is eternal, they go into an explanation that it means something other than eternal.

They say "denominations" problem is they don't study the bible, but if you do know your bible, you can show their inconsistency. "We just follow the bible" turns into "That verse doesn't really mean what it clearly says".

Oh yes indeedy.

I heard that a lot in reference to the Ten Commandments: we are still bound by them, except when we aren't.

Seriously, being in a coc messes with your mind.