I don't own any references that do a comparison between these Jewish mystical ideas and the NT, but maybe such things are out there? I think it is interesting to speculate - but I also know that Christian interpretations of - for instance - Pentecost and John have gone in Christian directions, which are certainly valid for Christians. I just think that when those accounts were WRITTEN, it was still at at time when Judaism and Christianity had not yet divided, and the background informing each must have been something shared. Clearly both evolved FROM that point, but there was a point when they were not different.
I also think there are clues all over the place in the gospels particularly which reference Jewish mystical ideas and themes, which are routinely missed entirely - or if not always 'missed', then disregarded as being proof of anything now, so to speak.
All I have really is Bart Young's book (Meet the Rabbis) which draws comparisons between the Sermon on the Mount (mostly) and the near-contemporary Pirke Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) showing that what Jesus was addressing generally in all his teachings were exactly the same themes that the late Second Temple period pharisaic rabbis were also discussing and in much the same terms. That's a nice sourcebook, and not too complicated and not too long, either!
It's a cottage industry nowadays, it seems, to try and see how Jesus and his teachings 'fit' in context, historically. But we actually don't have such a lot of written sources so there's as much speculation as there is fact. It is interesting though. Or I think it is! Maybe it's just me. I know there are some Christians I talk to sometimes, who think it is more important to understand what Christianity says NOW, instead of what Jesus or Paul or John might have said THEN. I think they are wrong to dismiss what their earliest authorities actually MEANT (which is what they do when they don't want to try to figure that out) at the time, no matter how much re-interpretation has become the standard since. How can you know where you stand now if you don't know where you came from?
One of the problems with having secret oral teachings (which almost all mysticism is) is that it is pretty hard to do any actual research on development!
Ask about Kabbalah
Re: Kabbalah
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
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Re: Kabbalah
I agree with your main point, but I thought the division between Judaism and Christianity was well underway by the time John was written. There are indications of this in the book itself. For example see John 9:22, where the man blind from birth is healed. His parents won't admit that he was healed by Jesus because "they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue." This surely wasn't true during Jesus' time, but apparently it was when John was written, around 100 CE. Also, the extreme anti-Semitism of the passion scenes in John suggests conflict between Christians and Jews at the time of writing. I believe your point about common background stands in any case, though. The split was recent (or still ongoing) and the background informing both was certainly still shared.agricola wrote:but I also know that Christian interpretations of - for instance - Pentecost and John have gone in Christian directions, which are certainly valid for Christians. I just think that when those accounts were WRITTEN, it was still at at time when Judaism and Christianity had not yet divided, and the background informing each must have been something shared. Clearly both evolved FROM that point, but there was a point when they were not different.
Me too. Trying to understand "the historical Jesus" has been going on since the publication of many liberal (in the 19-century sense) lives of Jesus in the late 19th century, most notably Renan's Vie de Jesus. Then Albert Schweitzer dropped a huge bombshell with his Quest for the Historical Jesus and people mostly gave up on the quest for a long time. Now it has come back in somewhat different guise, and it seems to me to be diverging rather that converging on shared views.It's a cottage industry nowadays, it seems, to try and see how Jesus and his teachings 'fit' in context, historically. But we actually don't have such a lot of written sources so there's as much speculation as there is fact. It is interesting though. Or I think it is! Maybe it's just me.
Re: Kabbalah
Yes by the late first century to early second century, we see that Christian groups are defining their beliefs AGAINST Jewish beliefs - they are defining themselves as 'different' in specific ways - I would speculate this started around the rebellion of 70-73, when the Romans came down very hard on Jews throughout the empire. This is also probably the time when any truly JEWISH Jesus-following groups were dispersed or killed in the fighting (around Jerusalem).
Ehrman has some good books about this early period (Lost Christianities).
Look at John, for example:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God - Jews would have no big problem with that.
and the Word WAS God - oops, BIG problem
and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us - more problem.
However, the 'idea' that there was a 'word' or 'logos' that pre-existed creation, was with God 'at the beginning' - now THAT is common to both Judaism and Christianity - see what I mean?
Ehrman has some good books about this early period (Lost Christianities).
Look at John, for example:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God - Jews would have no big problem with that.
and the Word WAS God - oops, BIG problem
and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us - more problem.
However, the 'idea' that there was a 'word' or 'logos' that pre-existed creation, was with God 'at the beginning' - now THAT is common to both Judaism and Christianity - see what I mean?
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
One thing I'm noticing about this book, is that it is definitely not a HISTORY of the development of kabbalah (even though some history is mentioned). So it is tough (without knowing a lot more) to say what ideas are 2000+ years old versus ones that are maybe 500 years old...
I am recognizing a lot of concepts and terms, but much of this appears to be Lurianic (which is about 500 years old) kabbalah - which, although it certainly BUILT on earlier stuff, is far more organized and well-thought out than (what we know of) the really old things. The oldest mystical type (type? school?) is merkavah mysticism (chariot mysticism) which had a lot of ideas circling on the fiery chariot in Ezekiel's vision - plus all the REST of the stuff in Ezekiel's vision (wheels within wheels, beasts with thousands of eyes - there is certainly no LACK of 'mystical ideas' in Ezekiel's vision!) Not too much is really known about it because it is mostly from before people were writing things down about it (or at least, we haven't found much).
But fair enough - modern (if you can call it that) kabbalah is either Lurianic, or is strongly influenced by Lurianic kabbalah, and Lurianic kabbalah was influenced by the Zohar, which is ATTRIBUTED to a first century sage, but probably isn't actually a first century product - or not entirely, anyway.
Isaac Luria is the source (as far as I know) of the idea of the shattering of the vessels and a new creation, and the teaching that we can participate with the cleaning of the 'shells' masking the sparks of divinity present in the world, so that we can bring on the perfection of the world at the end of time by our participation in tikkun olam (repairing the world).
Basically, Frankiel's book is explaining what 'mainstream' (hah) kabbalah is all about NOW, with very little about how it all developed over time. And modern kabbalah is (mostly) a la Luria (also called Ha-Ari: The Lion).
I am recognizing a lot of concepts and terms, but much of this appears to be Lurianic (which is about 500 years old) kabbalah - which, although it certainly BUILT on earlier stuff, is far more organized and well-thought out than (what we know of) the really old things. The oldest mystical type (type? school?) is merkavah mysticism (chariot mysticism) which had a lot of ideas circling on the fiery chariot in Ezekiel's vision - plus all the REST of the stuff in Ezekiel's vision (wheels within wheels, beasts with thousands of eyes - there is certainly no LACK of 'mystical ideas' in Ezekiel's vision!) Not too much is really known about it because it is mostly from before people were writing things down about it (or at least, we haven't found much).
But fair enough - modern (if you can call it that) kabbalah is either Lurianic, or is strongly influenced by Lurianic kabbalah, and Lurianic kabbalah was influenced by the Zohar, which is ATTRIBUTED to a first century sage, but probably isn't actually a first century product - or not entirely, anyway.
Isaac Luria is the source (as far as I know) of the idea of the shattering of the vessels and a new creation, and the teaching that we can participate with the cleaning of the 'shells' masking the sparks of divinity present in the world, so that we can bring on the perfection of the world at the end of time by our participation in tikkun olam (repairing the world).
Basically, Frankiel's book is explaining what 'mainstream' (hah) kabbalah is all about NOW, with very little about how it all developed over time. And modern kabbalah is (mostly) a la Luria (also called Ha-Ari: The Lion).
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
Well - on to the rest.
Immediately, there is a break between the three (or four) 'upper' sefirot and the lower seven. These sefirot are more active - moving, interacting - they are signifying the more obvious activity in the human world. They are less hidden, less mysterious, and more interactive.
The typical 'tree' (or body) design is significant, with the sefirot on the right side typically an 'opposite but balance' to the sefirot on the left side - until we reach the bottom (which is also the top of the tree): Malkhut (Manifestation).
(have to go back and take another look at the diagram)
Where the upper sefirot were the places where knowledge and desires exist, these are the places where the ACTION decided upon by those upper sefirot take place: now we are in the world of 'multiplicity' (but we can still remember that, REALLY, everything is unity 'behind the scenes').
So in the lower sefirot we have six in pairs, leading to the single Malkhut. The pairs are dynamic pairs, and they are also called 'midot' or measures - because they can be measured: they have limits. The sefirot of the head - the upper sefirot - don't have 'measures' - they are unlimited. But now we are getting into the real world and dynamic movement, and these sefirot are more defined and less 'open'.
Midot also means attributes - again, something with more definition (which also means limited - because when you define something you also rule things OUT).
So these midot - these sefirot - are
Immediately, there is a break between the three (or four) 'upper' sefirot and the lower seven. These sefirot are more active - moving, interacting - they are signifying the more obvious activity in the human world. They are less hidden, less mysterious, and more interactive.
The typical 'tree' (or body) design is significant, with the sefirot on the right side typically an 'opposite but balance' to the sefirot on the left side - until we reach the bottom (which is also the top of the tree): Malkhut (Manifestation).
(have to go back and take another look at the diagram)
Where the upper sefirot were the places where knowledge and desires exist, these are the places where the ACTION decided upon by those upper sefirot take place: now we are in the world of 'multiplicity' (but we can still remember that, REALLY, everything is unity 'behind the scenes').
So in the lower sefirot we have six in pairs, leading to the single Malkhut. The pairs are dynamic pairs, and they are also called 'midot' or measures - because they can be measured: they have limits. The sefirot of the head - the upper sefirot - don't have 'measures' - they are unlimited. But now we are getting into the real world and dynamic movement, and these sefirot are more defined and less 'open'.
Midot also means attributes - again, something with more definition (which also means limited - because when you define something you also rule things OUT).
So these midot - these sefirot - are
qualities that can be discerned in the world, something like character traits in a person.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
Since the next six come in pairs, we will discuss them in pairs.
The first set is Chesed and Gevurah (I would say, generosity and strength, but Frankiel is using Expansiveness and Restraint).
Basically, when you translate the names, you can choose from several possible options - Chesed is also 'lovingkindness' or example. And Gevurah is Power. Some people say Compassion and Discipline...
I can see a pattern here and why these two are related. Can you?
generosity
expansiveness
lovingkindness
compassion
vs
strength
restraint
power
discipline
Frankiel is using 'expansiveness' and 'restraint' because she feels the other terms sound a bit too 'human', and we are still talking about the universe as a whole - kabbalah doesn't just describe the HUMAN experience (although it DOES describe the human experience), it also describes EVERYTHING that is - all existence. So these qualities - these 'measures' - exist in the universe as a whole, as well as within people.
So - 'expansiveness' is like the Big Bang, and 'restraint' is gravity - or something like that. Duality - counter-responses - creativity (the expansiveness) meeting boundaries -(the restraint) leading to Art. Or Creation. OR....
to Beauty.
The first set is Chesed and Gevurah (I would say, generosity and strength, but Frankiel is using Expansiveness and Restraint).
Basically, when you translate the names, you can choose from several possible options - Chesed is also 'lovingkindness' or example. And Gevurah is Power. Some people say Compassion and Discipline...
I can see a pattern here and why these two are related. Can you?
generosity
expansiveness
lovingkindness
compassion
vs
strength
restraint
power
discipline
Frankiel is using 'expansiveness' and 'restraint' because she feels the other terms sound a bit too 'human', and we are still talking about the universe as a whole - kabbalah doesn't just describe the HUMAN experience (although it DOES describe the human experience), it also describes EVERYTHING that is - all existence. So these qualities - these 'measures' - exist in the universe as a whole, as well as within people.
So - 'expansiveness' is like the Big Bang, and 'restraint' is gravity - or something like that. Duality - counter-responses - creativity (the expansiveness) meeting boundaries -(the restraint) leading to Art. Or Creation. OR....
to Beauty.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
Beauty is another name for the Sefirah of the Heart: Tiferet (Splendor).
Note that this version shows Chesed and Gevurah as 'Unconditional Love' and 'Power'.
Note that this version shows Chesed and Gevurah as 'Unconditional Love' and 'Power'.
Everywhere we encounter fundamental dualities: light and darkness, movement and rest, male and female, fire and water....'Twoness' is also the dynamic of creator and creation. In this sense, Expansiveness and Restraint are intimately involved in the creation of the Universe. When God only was present - when Divinity was totally expanded, we might say - no world was possible...
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
Speaking personally, I find this image of 'creation' a LOT more intellectually and emotionally satisfying than the story I was told at church. This is a god -image which is infinitely 'large' (pun not exactly intended, but recognized) compared to, say, Genesis 2. And yet - the God in Genesis 2 is this same God: so - homework time? Consider how one reads that story in Genesis 2, when one 'knows' that THIS image of God (the Ein Sof, the Restraint and Expansiveness model of creation) is 'actually' going on behind it?The famous kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria...explained that God contracted himself, bringing into being a hollow space...inside the fullness. This was an act of Restraint. Into this space, God emanated a beam of light, know as the Or Ein Sof, or light of the infinite. From this all creation emerged - Expansiveness again.
Through that divine self-restraint, another reality was made possible, a universe unfolding in the vacated space, a world that appears to be sustained by its own laws.
Not Frankiel. That's just me. And this kind of idea is why I will sometimes say that the way fundamentalist Christians read the Bible stories is very 'flat'.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
I thought you might like another depiction of the sefirot - by Davide Tonato (I think).
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Kabbalah
Making distinctions is a big deal in Judaism generally -
Why is 'restraint' considered a source of chaos? I found that a little confusing. Frankiel says it is because when God exercises Restraint, some of the ordering force of the universe is removed, so we experience that as 'chaos'.
an example - rain is both a blessing and a curse. We suffer from too little but also from too much.
People experience time as linear so we have a hard time seeing present day evil leading to future good or vice versa,
Blessed are You, Lord, our God, Ruler of the Universe, Who distinguishes between the sacred and the profane, between light and darkness, between Israel and the other nations, between the Sabbath and the rest of the week, Blessed are You, Lord, Who distinguishes between the holy and the ordinary.
...making appropriate distinctions is one of the ways that the original mistake of Adam and Eve can be corrected. The forbidden tree was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. When they ate of the fruit, good and evil became mixed and confused in the world. The human task is to clarify thy difference between them and choose the good.
On the human level, the Torah's essential message is lovingkindness (Chesed)...The other side of the duality is Gevurah - Restraint. ...If God had never contracted, there would be no universe. Out of God's restraint, the universe can evolve. With gravity, the universe can attain stability. On the human level, restraint is justice.
So the idea is that a balance is 'better'. Too much expansiveness can be chaotic. So can too much 'restraint'. Love without discipline, justice without mercy.Understand that ... these two sefirot are opposite poles of one whole. Both come from the wholeness of love.
Why is 'restraint' considered a source of chaos? I found that a little confusing. Frankiel says it is because when God exercises Restraint, some of the ordering force of the universe is removed, so we experience that as 'chaos'.
an example - rain is both a blessing and a curse. We suffer from too little but also from too much.
People experience time as linear so we have a hard time seeing present day evil leading to future good or vice versa,
so we seesaw through life.
examples: imprisonment which results in resolve and redemption, illness which leads to the growth of compassion for others, grief or suffering that makes someone resolve to improve situations so that others don't suffer the same things in future.We usually don't realize that both dimensions of the duality are always present , for we an see only part of the picture...
Kabbalah offers us a unique perspective here. In the big picture, on the level of unification, God's sustenance of the universe is itself a tremendous act of ongoing love....But, on the lower level where we live, God appears to be dealing out judgment and punishment. The lower dualistic level is understood ad the revealed, while the higher unified reality is the concealed...
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.