Invited to take CoC correspondence course today

[KLP]

Agreed, inconsistent actions and arguments of people undermines taking them seriously. It doesn't really effect the validity of what they are saying one way or the other, but undermines them as communicators or advocates for what they saying. "Do as I say, not as I act" is a wasted effort. So, a drunkard might be on to something when warning against drinking. But how dare Kasich advise young girls to avoid drunken college parties. So, I still stand by my point that culture today is about PC, "safe spaces", and being non-judgment...there is very little room for discussing personal behaviors and choices (much less the resulting consequences)...everything has to be about "support" only. If you are different then good for you, I am speaking about the broader culture.

[JKendallDane]

The reason things have become "so PC" has a great deal to do with decades and decades on top of decades and decades of racism, gay bashing, blatant misogyny, barely concealed class warfare, and organized religion with an attitude that it's okay to ignore the greatest commandment and hate your neighbor so long as you can beat him up with a cherry-picked scripture.

Granted, some things have become ridiculous, but it's also opened up new lines of thought and communication also. Unfortunately, we have far too much of the country that doesn't want to accept the idea that sensible communication could solve most of the issues. "My way or the highway" doesn't work in personal situations any better than it works in government.

We've lost the desire, and possibly the ability also, to discuss things and work towards reasonable compromises.

[KLP]

Yes, as you say, there is no discussion possible with many groups about any number of topics. Any attempt at discussion or diversity of opinion gets one labeled as a racist, bigot, or hater. People are so quick to just label any differing opinion as "hate" or from a bad motive. CofC questions motive by phrases like "the honest Bible student will see...". And so they call into question one's motive or intent when they happen to not agree or hold different values and different things as important. When folks see everyone else as flawed and working from a bad motive then maybe the problem is with them and not everyone else. That is how I have come to think. So I am not quick to break out negative hate filled labels to constantly blame and focus on others.

[JKendallDane]

I very rarely use terms like racist, homophobe, bigot, et al, unless it is blatantly apparent that is the way it is. Name-calling (and that includes things like "lefty liberals" ) accomplishes nothing.

I do believe there are people out there operating from a bad motive position. Pat Robertson, the AFA, and the whacks at Liberty Counsel fit that description well. The term "flawed" is a whole other thing. I see many "flawed" people making outrageous claims and comments, but I use that term for them because ignorance is a flaw. It's also one that can be cured by intelligent discussion and usually a little research. But the person who is uneducated must want to learn. So many refuse to even consider learning what they have always thought, may not be true.

Just as most of us can relate stories of how we were indoctrinated with intentional ignorance via the CoC, years of unfounded ignorance has been spread into the American psyche on so many topics. Far too many people are choosing the "I'd rather remain ignorant" attitude...and that's sad.

[KLP]

Ignorance, bigotry, hate, etc are IMO often in the eyes, ears, and minds of those making that accusation. So for instance when encountering anyone opposed to homosexual marriage some folks go to terms like homophobe or ignorance instead of just saying maybe some folks have a point. Maybe there is something to this notion of millennia's of heterosexual marriage/family/child-rearing instead of just saying marriage is about "equal love". Nope, that discussion is not possible with folks who immediately go to accusations homophobe and ignorance. It is the same with a CofCer, or any person who convinced they have ownership of the right and moral position and the high ground. Discussion and disagreement are by definition invalid to this person. This closed mindedness is justified by the person because they know they have "the truth".

So hate on Kim Davis as a person all day, but it does not change the fact that true "diversity" demands there be some sort of accommodation and open mindedness to all view points. But as it is, both "sides" are closed and closed-minded to any sort of accommodation for the other. So back to my original post and my point...being open minded is a good thing...justifying a closed mind is not productive.

[JKendallDane]

Ignorance, bigotry, hate, etc are IMO often in the eyes, ears, and minds of those making that accusation. So for instance when encountering anyone opposed to homosexual marriage some folks go to terms like homophobe or ignorance instead of just saying maybe some folks have a point. Maybe there is something to this notion of millennia's of heterosexual marriage/family/child-rearing instead of just saying marriage is about "equal love". Nope, that discussion is not possible with folks who immediately go to accusations homophobe and ignorance. It is the same with a CofCer, or any person who convinced they have ownership of the right and moral position and the high ground. Discussion and disagreement are by definition invalid to this person. This closed mindedness is justified by the person because they know they have "the truth".

So hate on Kim Davis as a person all day, but it does not change the fact that true "diversity" demands there be some sort of accommodation and open mindedness to all view points. But as it is, both "sides" are closed and closed-minded to any sort of accommodation for the other. So back to my original post and my point...being open minded is a good thing...justifying a closed mind is not productive.

I have to laugh every time I see the argument of "marriage/family/child rearing" as some kind of defense against equal marriage. Thousands of gay couples are married, have created a family, and are raising their own children...but since that doesn't fit into the nice, neat little cubbyhole of "how we've always done it" it must be ignored in the process of condemning them.

The bottom line with Kim Davis is the fact that she was wrong. She violated both the law and her oath of office. I would feel the same way about her had her stance been that she refused to issue marriage licenses to divorced couples because she would be "sanctioning adultery."

I don't think you are an ignorant person. Not in the least. I do believe you are woefully ignorant about gay issues, historical struggles, and facts, though.

And please drop the hyperbole of using "homophobe" every chance you can. No one has even alluded to that term but you.

[onward]

An open mind? Um...isn't that exactly the opposite of what you are taught once they get in their clutches?

Having an open mind, at least in the hardline CoC POV, simply means there's only one viable solution to the problems of the world and they have the perfect answer - do as we do, and think as we think; there are no acceptable alternatives.

[KLP]

I've made my point, and it is illustrated I am disengaging thread.

[JKendallDane]

I've made my point, and it is illustrated I am disengaging thread.

I take it that is your "Beam me up, Scotty" line?

[faithfyl]

It might be something to read if you ever have a bad case of insomnia.