Gambling

[Scott]

I always enjoyed gambling specially horseracing since I grew up 30 minutes away from a racetrack. I know that certain personalities could get in trouble doing this but I never gambled with food or rent money. It's hard for me to see the difference between "Gambling" on a stock or "investing" on a horse. I have done both and to me it's all Statistics, probabilities, information and unknown information.
To me both are interesting and enjoyable. I could go to the movies and lose $30.00 between the tickets and food or I could go to the track, be outside and do the same. But periodically at the track I would walk out ahead a few hundred dollars while having more fun. Never walked out of the Movies ahead. Anyway as a Coc'er I was told no gambling on horses, Poker etc. But from what I remember stock market was acceptable. Never really understood why the Stock Market was treated differently. Don't have the numbers but I think I have lost more money on the stock market then horseracing.

[Lev]

When I was in the COC and asked about why gambling was wrong, I was told that it was based on the verse which said, "A fool and his money are soon parted." Which might be applicable to this question, I guess, if it were in the Bible at all! Another time I remember hearing a debate in Bible class between two deacons about what, exactly constituted gambling.

"Do you play the Publisher's Clearing House?"

"You bet. It doesn't cost me anything."

"Would you pay a dollar for a lottery ticket?"

"No way."

"What if the lottery ticket were the same price as a postage stamp?"

"Wouldn't matter."

"Well you pay for a postage stamp to send in the Clearinghouse form. How is that any different?"

They then proceeded to argue about how many camels could dance on the head of a pin while they attempted to tithe mint, dill, and cumin.

Lev

[Ivy]

It's not in the bible, to my knowledge. My theory is that people / families and children
were being hurt through the years by gambling, so the churches started telling people
gambling was a sin.

[zeek]

.

[ena]

May the odds be ever in your favor! If you develop an understanding of odds you will realize hoe it is done. You can play red/black on the roulette which would be 50/50 except the single, double and triple zeros on the wheel with the house takes. It is known as the house percentage. Over time they will win. It is probably the simplest example. I don't think much of slots but my mother could play them for some time without losing her shirt. I like 21 but the tables have gotten pricey. The object is to hold cards without going over 21 total. Face cards value 10 with aces being ten or eleven. Basically you become a human adding machine. There are different player rules like double down or splitting aces. The dealers hand is critical. If he has 6 showing he will have to hit it and maybe bust by going over 21. In that case those still in the running win their money back with an equivalent amount. Some gamble to pay for things. You will hear stories to that effect. I have generally lost money. The stock market can take on aspects gambling and the odds a better but not much. The Bible is silent here.

[agricola]

The mental trick necessary is to place 'gambling money' into the category of 'entertainment'. You have a budget or limit on entertainment, right? Then that's when you leave the table - when your budget max is in sight.


Like dieting, this is simple, but not easy. Like alcohol, if it isn't easy enough to stop after a certain point, then you avoid it altogether. There is a reason there is a Gambler's Anonymous.


As for the stock market, ideally that should be treated as an investment in the future of a tangible thing: a company. It is possible to treat the stock market as an advanced and complicated sort of gambling, but that is inappropriate. Unlike the casino, there is 'reality' behind the stock market - real companies making read things selling real object to real people and making (one hopes) real profits.

That's why there are more rules about the stock market than there are at the casino. There is nothing behind the casino tables but 'fun' (for some) and profit for the casino. Over the long term, the casino WILL win: the casino isn't gambling with that.

[Struggler]

Of course, we must not forget that we are not commanded to gamble.

[Lev]

Of course, we must not forget that we are not commanded to gamble.

That's right: rule of silence.

[KLP]

Because something feels the same does not mean it is the same...to wit, adultery and fornication.

In stock market investment the notion is of providing capital to businesses so that they can grow. It is a growth prospect and growing wealth. Dividends are returned from growth activity and appreciation increases the share value. It is a growing pie but not of one's direct labor. So like the worthy wise woman in Proverbs 31 where she buys low and sells high and brings honor and life to her house. But there is risk involved even in the activities of the worthy woman.

Gambling is by definition all a matter of risk and there is no growth prospect. One can only prosper as a direct result of the loss of another. It is not stealing since all parties are consenting to the arrangement but personal gain from the loss/injury of others is inherent. That is the clearest moral difference in the two activities even though they may share other attributes.

Other Bible wisdom teaches about the value of work and a work ethic in order to provide and prosper. Getting something for nothing is a violation of the principal or the ox or workman being worthy of his hire. Still, if you happen to own a bit of property that suddenly increases in value due to no effort on your part, then that is getting something for nothing. So it is more about the seeking/desire to get something for nothing rather than it actually happening now and then. Because time and chance happeneth to them all and the race is not always to the swift.

But there are some examples of casting lots to make a decision and decides who "wins".

Using a big operation like a casino or horse track keeps us all sort of anonymous so that we do not know who or where exactly the losses came from and who might be suffering at that loss (assuming there is unwise gambling on the part of others).

There are also usually arguments made about coveting, being content, and trusting/depending on the blessings from God. I find them tangential and a bit weak, but I get the point. Being a game of chance or risk is not why Gambling is wrong (if it is). Sins of coveting and greed are real and Gambling may be an outlet or conduit for/towards such sins since it is about getting something for nothing or getting rich quickly. And some aspect of the market are like this and are a draw to greed and get rich quick schemes even at the expense of others...day traders have much more in common with gambling than does something like dumping 5% of your income to a 401K in mutual funds for decades....but it all involves risk at some level, so again risk is not the issue as evidenced by the praise of the worthy woman.

[Moogy]

My COC father enjoyed commodity futures. That is about as close to gambling as anything. But you couldn't convince him. (Not that I tried. I figured it was his business not mine.) He was too cautious to lose more than he could afford. I liquidated his trading accts when I served as executor of his estate.