How much self-hatred does it take...???

[agricola]

I'll offer a reason why I believe the c of c was able to get away with this tactic. I'm currently reading Jesus, Mything in Action by David Fitzgerald. In the book he references this.......


John Dominic Crossan, a noted Bible scholar and former Catholic Priest wrote, “My point once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”

Yes, Cootie. Which is exactly why I would call the overarching 'religious story' a 'myth': analogous to a 'theory' in science, a religious myth is a total explanation of Everything About Humans and the Supernatural, using symbolic language (and literal symbols) to convey a complex subject in understandable terms (which absolutely WILL not work if you try to think everything is supposed to be literally factual).

[Cootie Brown]

I'll offer a reason why I believe the c of c was able to get away with this tactic. I'm currently reading Jesus, Mything in Action by David Fitzgerald. In the book he references this.......


John Dominic Crossan, a noted Bible scholar and former Catholic Priest wrote, “My point once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”

Yes, Cootie. Which is exactly why I would call the overarching 'religious story' a 'myth': analogous to a 'theory' in science, a religious myth is a total explanation of Everything About Humans and the Supernatural, using symbolic language (and literal symbols) to convey a complex subject in understandable terms (which absolutely WILL not work if you try to think everything is supposed to be literally factual).

I wouldn't classify a myth as an explanation, I think the correct definition would be that it's an opinion. Bible stories (theological myths) are someone's opinions about something related to some form of spirituality. I could easily change the word opinion to Fictionalist: defined as the view in philosophy according to which statements that appear to be descriptions of the world should not be construed as such, but should instead be understood as cases of "make believe", of pretending to treat something as literally true (Useful Fiction).

I realize we see this issue differently.

[evolvingsight]

I know, it's like we had to feel guilt constantly. They had issues also with people who enjoyed life and wanted to live it to the fullest.

Boyoboy, was THAT ever TRUE!!!

[agricola]

I'll offer a reason why I believe the c of c was able to get away with this tactic. I'm currently reading Jesus, Mything in Action by David Fitzgerald. In the book he references this.......


John Dominic Crossan, a noted Bible scholar and former Catholic Priest wrote, “My point once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”

Yes, Cootie. Which is exactly why I would call the overarching 'religious story' a 'myth': analogous to a 'theory' in science, a religious myth is a total explanation of Everything About Humans and the Supernatural, using symbolic language (and literal symbols) to convey a complex subject in understandable terms (which absolutely WILL not work if you try to think everything is supposed to be literally factual).

I wouldn't classify a myth as an explanation, I think the correct definition would be that it's an opinion. Bible stories (theological myths) are someone's opinions about something related to some form of spirituality. I could easily change the word opinion to Fictionalist: defined as the view in philosophy according to which statements that appear to be descriptions of the world should not be construed as such, but should instead be understood as cases of "make believe", of pretending to treat something as literally true (Useful Fiction).

I realize we see this issue differently.

Cootie I keep giving you a DEFINITION (a fact) and you keep insisting it is an OPINION.
That isn't how it works.

[Cootie Brown]

Cootie I keep giving you a DEFINITION (a fact) and you keep insisting it is an OPINION.
That isn't how it works.

That's the way it works for me, but obviously not for you. I will agree that we define the term myth differently, or more correctly we choose definitions that fit our world view. Assuming the bible is a collection of myths I can accept it as literature with a religious connection, but I for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone can base their "faith" on myths which are, even though you disagree, fictional stories. How can faith be real if it's based on fictional stories? I am mystified by that. I assume my brain is just wired differently.

[agricola]

I must assume at this point that you have never read anything I ever wrote about religious myths.

[Cootie Brown]

I must assume at this point that you have never read anything I ever wrote about religious myths.

I'm sure my wife would be willing to send you a text confirming that I'm pretty much a hopeless case. Lord knows I frustrate her too. As I see it we are just interpreting the word myth differently.

myth

1. a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.
synonyms: folk tale, folk story, legend, tale, story, fable, saga, mythos, lore, folklore, mythology
"ancient Greek myths"

theological myth

Myth in the Hebrew Bible is a complex and controversial topic, depending on how one defines myth and sometimes on one’s religious orientation. In everyday usage today, myth carries a meaning of something untrue, a fable, a fiction, or an illusion. That usage has a long history, traceable back to certain Greek philosophers. Anthropologists and historians of religion, however, use the term “myth” with a quite different meaning. For them myth refers to a traditional story, usually associated with the time of origins (e.g., creation or some important institution) that has paradigmatic significance for the society in which the story is operative. In this latter meaning, myth is characteristic of every traditional society; some would argue that myth continues to be operative even in modern, scientific society, camouflaged under other terms, including science itself (e.g., the big bang theory). Persons who hold that the Bible has been infallibly revealed by God and those who consider myth as something untrue may well find it offensive to posit that myth is present in the Bible. By contrast, those who see myth as one of the ways that a traditional society expresses it most profound truths may find inspiration in seeing biblical narratives as myth


It seems to me you are defining the word myth in it's religious meaning or context. I am defining it in it's traditional generally accepted present day meaning. The fact that I'm no longer religious probably has a lot to do with how I understand the word myth.

[FinallyFree]

On a different note from the past few comments, I will say that when I first read this thread, I didn't really understand about the self-hatred. Now I think I do. I was telling my husband how much better I feel about myself and my family's situation because I feel less judged in the church I am in now. Being in the CofC, you are so focused on what everyone else thinks and how things look. I have situations with my grown children that people in the CofC would look down on and judge. Things are much less painful now.
Also, things like having to go forward and do the walk of shame are self-hatred inducing. The church I attend now has a type of "invitation" where people can join our congregation or express desire to be baptized, but nothing is said about coming to confess sins, or, at least, I have never seen this happen.

[KLP]

actually just reading this thread might require a fairly high threshold.

[ena]

I've been out nearly 40 years and I still have issues.

I've been out almost 50 years and I still have issues with this CULT. I don't go to Church because I am well aware of the flaws. Few Christian's are and miss represent the facts. I could not attend the CoC because it is so dead spiritually. You have to be away from that environment to spiritually awaken. The gospels were written by human beings and they do not totally agree with each other in details. For instance you might ask, "Was the tomb of Jesus open or closed when Mary Magdalene and varying company arrived." It is both open and closed depending on which Gospel you read. It has a swinging rock. Is that important? Not really. The point is to take things as they are.