Lasting Effects

[FFT]

As I mentioned a bit in the welcome thread, I feel like growing up in the church has scarred me a bit, in ways that I'm only just now, several years after leaving, starting to realize.

Guilt:
I feel guilty all the time, even about things I have no control over. If someone is having a bad day or feels uncomfortable, I feel like I have to apologize, even if I'm not the cause of it. I often question the things that I say, even just casual comments, and spend time analyzing them over and over, wondering if I should have said it differently.

I think this largely stems from the idea that the church is constantly harping on that we, as humans, should constantly feel inadequate. We're not good enough, we're lowly sinners, we're nothing, unless we do exactly what the bible says. We're taught to believe that without the church, we have nothing. And even though I don't regret leaving at all, I think there's still a part of me that wonders if that sentiment is true.

I believe that the COC thrives on guilt - it's how they bring people in and keep them from leaving. They make you feel like if you believe differently, you'll let God down, you'll let your family down, etc. I don't think I'd go so far to say that the COC is a cult, but this tactic is one of the most disturbing aspects of it, in my opinion.

Low Self-Esteem
This ties in to what I mentioned above - the constant idea that we're not good enough. That if we make even one mistake, we're out of heaven, unless we take the exact right steps to ask for forgiveness, which often means humiliating yourself in front of the rest of the congregation by "going forward." This philosophy has led to feelings of inadequacy that I'm working to shake off.

Self-Doubt
One of the worst effects of growing up in the COC, for me, is that I have a hard time trusting my gut, because for so long, I was taught to only believe what the bible says and what the church teaches, even if it conflicts with what your gut tells you. I've found that I have a hard time forming opinions, because in the church, you don't really get opinions. It's hard to me to determine how I feel about something without guidance, because for years, the COC told me what to think about everything.

For example, "we are the one true church, everyone else is wrong." While still attending, I could parrot that back at any point, because the COC told me what to think. Even though in my gut I felt like no loving God would make it that hard to get to heaven, I felt I couldn't trust myself to form an opinion - it was just that sneaky old devil trying to lead me away from the truth.

I want to make it clear that, overall, I've had it pretty easy. Even with growing up in the church, I had a happy childhood, and I love my family (who still wholeheartedly believes) very much. I'm absolutely not trying to complain or elicit pity in any way. I'm just realizing that this upbringing can have long-term effects that are hard to overcome.

Anyone else out there experience the same feelings after leaving? Or similar long-term effects from their time in the church?

[gordie91]

I didn't have a "bad" life either growing up in the CoC. I work in the family business and see them quite regular. It can be weird at times but for the most part it works out well now that the air has been cleared and my rationale has been expressed to them in a calm way.

Though, those gut reactions or knee jerk reactions that are drilled into our heads still show up from time to time. Certain phrases come up in discussions and the mind defaults to those CoC cliches we are all familiar with and love. For me now I just keep any religious comments to myself or very generic. My past life was somewhat confrontational and contrary to CoC popular belief. Unfortunately my in-laws are very much involved in the CoC, father in-law is a long time preacher and has written a few books, class material and journals, so there is an underlying tension ever present but not knock down yelling tournaments.

As for guilt, that was the easiest thing for me to overcome, mainly because of my personal philosophy of Objectivism which laid the groundwork for me leaving by being the one in the family that, for some time, did not analyze every situation through the lens of the CoC doctrine or bible. This gave me the tools to think things through and to eliminate so called "truths" when there was a contradiction.

The first guiltless act I suppose was buying that first bottle of wine from a liquor store! I didn't care who saw me because I was not going to allow their contradictory arguments to shame me into not enjoying that bottle of wine, that was when I still was attending. Moral of the story, hang in there and have confidence in what you believe by eliminating all contradictions and some of those lasting effects will fade away.

[FFT]

I didn't have a "bad" life either growing up in the CoC. I work in the family business and see them quite regular. It can be weird at times but for the most part it works out well now that the air has been cleared and my rationale has been expressed to them in a calm way.

Though, those gut reactions or knee jerk reactions that are drilled into our heads still show up from time to time. Certain phrases come up in discussions and the mind defaults to those CoC cliches we are all familiar with and love. For me now I just keep any religious comments to myself or very generic. My past life was somewhat confrontational and contrary to CoC popular belief. Unfortunately my in-laws are very much involved in the CoC, father in-law is a long time preacher and has written a few books, class material and journals, so there is an underlying tension ever present but not knock down yelling tournaments.

As for guilt, that was the easiest thing for me to overcome, mainly because of my personal philosophy of Objectivism which laid the groundwork for me leaving by being the one in the family that, for some time, did not analyze every situation through the lens of the CoC doctrine or bible. This gave me the tools to think things through and to eliminate so called "truths" when there was a contradiction.

The first guiltless act I suppose was buying that first bottle of wine from a liquor store! I didn't care who saw me because I was not going to allow their contradictory arguments to shame me into not enjoying that bottle of wine, that was when I still was attending. Moral of the story, hang in there and have confidence in what you believe by eliminating all contradictions and some of those lasting effects will fade away.

Thank you for this insight! I hope to one day be able to be open with my family about having left and my current beliefs, even if it's just that I'm not sure what I believe, and it's helpful to know that others have done so and still maintain a relationship with their family. If you don't mind sharing, what led you to telling your family that you'd left?

I'm lucky to have an opposite in-law situation - I very much enjoy having my guard down around them, letting an occasional curse word slip out, and enjoying a glass a wine with them, especially during the holidays

[Moogy]

FFT,
I share a lot of your experiences. I still rethink things I have said, justify my words and actions if they have been questionable (after all, I can't risk actually making a mistake--that would send me to hell!)

I had to tell my parents about my departure pretty soon after I left. My mother was very close to her brother, an NICOC preacher. He lived in the same major metropolitan area with me (thankfully, it was clear across the city, so I wasn't expected to attend there.) I knew the preacher grapevine would get the news to her, and I wanted to tell her on my own terms, not for her to hear from someone else.

[FFT]

FFT,
I share a lot of your experiences. I still rethink things I have said, justify my words and actions if they have been questionable (after all, I can't risk actually making a mistake--that would send me to hell!)

I had to tell my parents about my departure pretty soon after I left. My mother was very close to her brother, an NICOC preacher. He lived in the same major metropolitan area with me (thankfully, it was clear across the city, so I wasn't expected to attend there.) I knew the preacher grapevine would get the news to her, and I wanted to tell her on my own terms, not for her to hear from someone else.

Thank you for sharing your experience, Moogy! It's nice to know I'm not alone in these feelings. How did it go telling your parents? Did it take a while for things to get at least civil again?

[Cootie Brown]

You're experiencing the after effects of intense indoctrination. Indoctrination is the life blood of religion. It is how they maintain control. The cure for indoctrination is education. The cure for sin is the realization that it only exists in religion & it's a tool that was created to control people by making them feel inadequate & dependent. This is nasty stuff & very difficult to overcome. As I noted, education is absolutely necessary to get that crap out of your head.

I would recommend Dr. Bart Ehrman as a very good bible scholar to read. He's a religious historian not an apologist. I would strongly recommend you not read apologist. They are part of the problem not the solution. They simply enforce the indoctrination. If you want to know the truth about the origins & evolution of both the bible & Christianity, then you will have to read historians like Bart Ehrman, Robert M. Price, & David Fitzgerald. Their books are available on Amazon & come in kindle versions.

Read religious history & the truth will indeed set you free.

[gordie91]

Well FFT, you know all that contrarian stuff that I mentioned came in real handy when the cat had to get out of the bag.

Over the years during my rantings about the contradictions and the history of the church, on numerous occasions someone would snap at me and ask "why don't you be a catholic then?". I wasn't going to do that but deep down if that is all you have to respond to someone, your argument is weak to say the least.

We had stopped going to our little church and since we were going somewhere else felt like it would be better to send an exit letter and avoid any awkward moments since my father in-law was scheduled to come and preach a meeting at my parents church. Since people ask questions, I didn't want my family to get blindsided so I told them that we had sent an exit letter and was going somewhere else. I didn't volunteer, but as it was dear ole dad said "well it is too far to go to a Greek Orthodox Church, so where are you going?". I just smiled and then the light bulbs went off. It isn't too far to go to the local Greek Orthodox Church.

I had a couple of discussions, stayed calm and basically told them that I had thought it through and don't worry about me because what building I walk into on Sundays isn't going to be the thing that sends me to hell and what would they rather me do, trash it all? Because I had at one time done that.

Only my wife has talked to my in-laws, I think they view me as a lost cause, nice guy but lost cause. Everyone since that has been fairly respectful. I was like you and thought that I would be overrun with calls to study and constant harassing about my decision but with some help from this site, setting boundaries, things have gone fairly smooth. But still, sometimes there is a little bit of hurt because it just doesn't seem fair that people can act the way they do but I just realize that not everything in life is always fair and eventually move on.

[agricola]

As I mentioned a bit in the welcome thread, I feel like growing up in the church has scarred me a bit, in ways that I'm only just now, several years after leaving, starting to realize.

Guilt:
I feel guilty all the time, even about things I have no control over.

Yes. I was guilty, guilty, guilty. If it rained I was guilty - I FELT GUILT - and it was reinforced by the church teachings.
If a boy looked at my body, I was GUILTY - it was MY FAULT - and it was reinforced by church teachings.

Guilt, and Fear.

Low Self-Esteem
This ties in to what I mentioned above - the constant idea that we're not good enough.

It takes only ONE tiny mistake, just one. You don't even have to do it on purpose! And you are GUILTY (see above).

Self-Doubt
One of the worst effects of growing up in the COC, for me, is that I have a hard time trusting my gut, because for so long, I was taught to only believe what the bible says and what the church teaches, even if it conflicts with what your gut tells you. I've found that I have a hard time forming opinions, because in the church, you don't really get opinions. It's hard to me to determine how I feel about something without guidance, because for years, the COC told me what to think about everything.

Oh my oh YES. Without practice in making decisions, in forming opinions, we are socially disadvantaged and culturally handicapped.

Anyone else out there experience the same feelings after leaving? Or similar long-term effects from their time in the church?

Oh yes. And it is definitely long term. I was 'in' for under 30 years and have been out longer than I was in - and I can still see the aftereffects playing out in my life.

[flawed]

I feel mostly agnostic most of the time, but continue to occasionally go to a liberal COC church (my parents refuse to attend it when they come for a visit and I already am consumed by that guilt) basically for two reasons: I can't shake the feeling that I'm a terrible parent if I don't take my kids to church and I cannot be honest with my family about my lack of belief. It is so emotionally exhausting to be a grown adult and still feel forced into my parents religion. My husband has never been a believer, and while my family thinks he's a great guy, he's still hell bound. It's also so emotionally exhausting to have to plan all our trips to visit them (we live around 5 hours away) around the thrice weekly church services, so our visits are never on the weekend and usually don't last more than a couple days. It's so rediculous really. One the most troubling lasting effect that I experience is the fear of death. I often wonder if I will wake up in hell realizing they were right. I also worry about how I will handle getting a terminal diagnosis, and if the fear will consume my final days.

[Letmethink]

FFT,

I can very much relate to many, if not most of the feelings you describe.

Guilt:
I feel guilty all the time, even about things I have no control over. If someone is having a bad day or feels uncomfortable, I feel like I have to apologize, even if I'm not the cause of it. I often question the things that I say, even just casual comments, and spend time analyzing them over and over, wondering if I should have said it differently.

I dealt with this very intensely while in the coc and even after leaving, and even now to some extent. What particularly resonates is the feeling of guilt for things that I am not at all the cause for. Particularly, the feeling that anytime someone would get upset, angry, or mad, that it was somehow my fault, and somehow my responsibility to correct. I began reading and developing some basic understanding around psychology and personality disorders, and realize that I was actually engaging in emotional codependency. I think this is a learned response/behavior that crops up within very authoritarian environments.

One of the keys to getting past this feeling, IMO, is knowledge. First understanding the emotional and psychological factors that are at play here, and becoming cognitively aware of what is happening. The emotional elements will not immediately go away, but they will begin to lessen as you become more comfortable understanding both what's at play, and why you have arrived at the place you are at.

I believe that the COC thrives on guilt - it's how they bring people in and keep them from leaving. They make you feel like if you believe differently, you'll let God down, you'll let your family down, etc. I don't think I'd go so far to say that the COC is a cult, but this tactic is one of the most disturbing aspects of it, in my opinion.

I think this is absolutely true, and it's a form of emotional manipulation that keeps people from both 1) considering external views, facts and information, and 2) from doing introspection of themselves or their group.

I don't think most people realize that it's emotionally manipulative - either that they are doing it, or that it is being done to them. In fact, I think most people are even "sincere" even while they're acting out in manipulative or toxic ways. Still, that doesn't change the fact that it's effects can be harmful, hampering intellectual growth, and emotional maturity.

Is the coc a cult? I agree with you that its probably not, at least not in the sense of something like Scientology. But this explanation comes to mind which I actually think is pretty fitting for most religions. I think it's accurate in principle, though the specifics may differ between religions:

"In a cult there is a person at the top who knows it is a scam. In a religion, that person is dead."