Black-American experiences

[Cootie Brown]

We attended a successful interracial congregation for 16 years in Memphis. It was about a 60-40 mix white majority. We had racially mixed Elders, Deacons, & teachers. We also had a few interracial married couples. The membership was around 600. I'm white & we had some truly wonderful black friends.

Our lead Elder (every congrgation has a"lead" elder) was black & he was absolutely brilliant. He had a high ranking job with the FAA. I can attest the color thing disappears when you develope true friendships & respect for one another. We fellowshipped in each other's homes, went to ball games with one another. That happens when you get to know one another on a personal level.

I was born & raised in Northern Indiana. I can truthfully say we didn't have a race provlem, but that was only because the black population was very, very, small. There was only 2 black kids in my high school & they were both girls. The upside of that for me was that I was never exposed first hand to all the negative racial stuff that was going on in the 60's.

I'd never been out of Indiana so places like Mississippi, Alabama, & Georgia were like foreign countries to me. A lot of bad stuff was going on but I was a very naive kid & that stuff wasn't happening in my world, so it wasn't real to me.

My first duty station was Naval Air Station Memphis. Several of us took a cab from the airport to the bus station. The Navy would have a van there to take us to the base. I had to go to the bathroom. I was in uniform & when I came out of the bathroom a white guy grabbed my arm & said read the sign. He pointed to a sign that said colored only. I'd never heard of such a thing. Welcome to the Deep South dumb white kid.

I believe it's pretty clear that racism, bigotry, etc, is a learned response. And religion does play a role in some of this, especially when it comes to women & their roles. And the fact the Bible doesn't condem slavery is a problem too.

[SolaDude]

Is anyone here a CofC historian?? ISTM that the CofC was for the most part a product of southern white society, was it not?? Then it moved north....But I think even today it's presence in the north is sparse compared to the south....anyway, I would presume its tradition became shaped by "separate but equal" at some point in time.....

Just as a general historical thing, it is a jaw dropping experience to read southern vs northern preachers' (all denominations) sermons before the civil war....in the south, of course, preachers interpreted slavery as an institution gifted by God, and blacks as sub-human and created by God that way for a purpose....how glad I am anyway that they lost the "war of the scriptural perspectives on slavery" in America...but I would imagine that the ultimate change in this perspective in the south was slow indeed...

[Opie]

I wouldn't claim to be an historian but I have read a few books on the subject. Yes, to a great extent the CoC is the result of Southern white society. When the Stone-Campbell movement eventually split after the Civil War, the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ were predominantly in the northern states, while the CoC was found mainly in the southern states. The Christian Church/Disciples of Christ also split later, resulting in the independent Christian Churches and the First Christian Church (Disciples).

BTW, many in the CoC refuse to acknowledge that there was a Stone-Campbell Movement, because to do so would force them to admit that the CoC is actually a denomination.

[SolaDude]

BTW, many in the CoC refuse to acknowledge that there was a Stone-Campbell Movement, because to do so would force them to admit that the CoC is actually a denomination.

Denial is such a "wonderful" thing.....it's like a drug addiction IMO....

The presumption, of course, is that every other Christian in the world claims to be in a church started by someone other than Christ, but we in the CofC are the ones to peculiarly believe that OUR church was started by Christ Himself.....

[Ivy]

BTW, many in the CoC refuse to acknowledge that there was a Stone-Campbell Movement, because to do so would force them to admit that the CoC is actually a denomination.

Denial is such a "wonderful" thing.....it's like a drug addiction IMO....

The presumption, of course, is that every other Christian in the world claims to be in a church started by someone other than Christ, but we in the CofC are the ones to peculiarly believe that OUR church was started by Christ Himself.....

A little story in my life......one of my junior high teachers called me a "Cambellite" in front of the class, and he thought it was very funny. Of course, I was horrified to be called out, and I didn't even really know what he meant.

I later asked my mother about Alexander Campbell, and she said "Oh, he has nothing to do with us."

[SolaDude]

BTW, many in the CoC refuse to acknowledge that there was a Stone-Campbell Movement, because to do so would force them to admit that the CoC is actually a denomination.

Denial is such a "wonderful" thing.....it's like a drug addiction IMO....

The presumption, of course, is that every other Christian in the world claims to be in a church started by someone other than Christ, but we in the CofC are the ones to peculiarly believe that OUR church was started by Christ Himself.....

A little story in my life......one of my junior high teachers called me a "Cambellite" in front of the class, and he thought it was very funny. Of course, I was horrified to be called out, and I didn't even really know what he meant.

I later asked my mother about Alexander Campbell, and she said "Oh, he has nothing to do with us."

I remember, Ivy, many times being stopped like that as well at the mention of Campbell...I always thought that to be peculiar...then as I got older and studied the historical FACTS of the CofC, it all became clear...."Campbellite" was a word unknown to me until I went to a CofC college....then I realized it was sourced in the Baptists.....Really, Campbellism is a much better descriptor to me....like Calvinism, Lutheranism, etc....

How ridiculous it is to look back and see how just plain ludicrous their dissociation from Alexander Campbell was, as if he and his name were anathemas....and how arrogant to look at all other Christians in the world for the past 2,000 years and claim their faith is not based in Christ, but in some person......Although they looked at others as being followers of someone other than Christ, they of course would not permit those others to look at them with the same characterization. I'm not sure how twisted the human mind can get sometimes.....overall, I would say may God have mercy on us all......

[kneedeep]

Had a talk with my mom recently about some doubts and that I may no longer continue with the cofc. When bringing up the Campbell/Restoration stuff..well she didn't give a straight answer. It seemed that she was afraid to admit the doctrines we have adopted today started from that movement. She admitted to not having researched it all that much.

When I asked why the church doesn't talk about this, she stated the church's main message is to simply be Christians and follow God's word. It's just hard to have an honest conversation about this stuff when so many people are unwilling to admit the truth about this denomination's history.

[SolaDude]

Had a talk with my mom recently about some doubts and that I may no longer continue with the cofc. When bringing up the Campbell/Restoration stuff..well she didn't give a straight answer. It seemed that she was afraid to admit the doctrines we have adopted today started from that movement. She admitted to not having researched it all that much.

When I asked why the church doesn't talk about this, she stated the church's main message is to simply be Christians and follow God's word. It's just hard to have an honest conversation about this stuff when so many people are unwilling to admit the truth about this denomination's history.

What's so ironic kneedeep is that what she said IS the message of Campbellism, that being, that "we're only Christians" (nobody but us) and "WE follow God's word" (as if to say no one else does because they don't have the enlightened interpretation of scripture that Cambellism touts)....to my knowledge, all of this came out of Alexander's head....to me, essentially all his movement was was a movement back to Rome....after all, he started out as a faith-only Presbyterian...then ended up as works-based theologian, IMO.....there's nothing new under the sun.

[Opie]

Both Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone recognized and accepted the fact that there were Christians in all churches/denominations. Their initial goal was to get all of these Christians to give up their creeds and denominational names, and just unite on the bible. That's what popularized one of the early slogans of the movement "We're Christians only, but not the only Christians". It was actually some of Campbell's more radical followers who hijacked the movement after his death, with the result that there are now 3 distinct denominations associated with "restoration movement churches" -- the Christian Church, the First Christian Church (Disciples), and the Church of Christ.

After his split with the Presbyterians, Alexander Campbell spent several years associated with the Baptist Church. On his death bed in 1866, Campbell reportedly lamented "I have always regretted that we and the Baptists had to part, it ought not to have been so."

If anyone is interested in learning more about the history of our denomination, I would recommend that you go to Amazon.com and order a copy of the book "Reviving the Ancient Faith - The Story of Churches of Christ in America" by Richard Hughes. Among other things, this book will open your eyes to the fact that the Church of Christ is an American denomination that had it's early beginnings at Cane Ridge, Kentucky in AD 1801 --- and not in Jerusalem in AD 33 as so many of us were taught.

[KLP]

what is wrong with wanting to just be a Christian? seems that might even be a laudable goal. I mean that Luther guy was nuts in some ways.