And when I think about it Jesus dying on the cross would violate CENI anyway, since no man was ever ordered to be given as a sacrifice in the Law of Moses anyway, only bulls, goats, birds, and flour and wheat.. It would be like strange fire.
Agricola
Agricola
I have a question for you. Where in the Prophets is it revealed that you can receive forgiveness of sins simply with sincere repentance without a sacrifice? I know Ezekiel touches on it to some degree with the discussion God had with him about the warner warning and people who turn from sin will live. But there was another prophet that discussed it too and I can't find my concordance.
And when I think about it Jesus dying on the cross would violate CENI anyway, since no man was ever ordered to be given as a sacrifice in the Law of Moses anyway, only bulls, goats, birds, and flour and wheat.. It would be like strange fire.
And when I think about it Jesus dying on the cross would violate CENI anyway, since no man was ever ordered to be given as a sacrifice in the Law of Moses anyway, only bulls, goats, birds, and flour and wheat.. It would be like strange fire.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
Re: Agricola
B.H. wrote: And when I think about it Jesus dying on the cross would violate CENI anyway, since no man was ever ordered to be given as a sacrifice in the Law of Moses anyway, only bulls, goats, birds, and flour and wheat.. It would be like strange fire.
I'm also curious to hear what Agricola has to say in answer to your question. But goodness, you're right... Jesus violates CENI-S once again! He violated it when he celebrated Hannukah (not commanded in the OT, other holidays were commanded). Now he's violated it by being a sin sacrifice. Silence of the scriptures is sounding so prohibitive, isn't it?
Re: Agricola
Shrubbery wrote:B.H. wrote: And when I think about it Jesus dying on the cross would violate CENI anyway, since no man was ever ordered to be given as a sacrifice in the Law of Moses anyway, only bulls, goats, birds, and flour and wheat.. It would be like strange fire.
I'm also curious to hear what Agricola has to say in answer to your question. But goodness, you're right... Jesus violates CENI-S once again! He violated it when he celebrated Hannukah (not commanded in the OT, other holidays were commanded). Now he's violated it by being a sin sacrifice. Silence of the scriptures is sounding so prohibitive, isn't it?
You two are so bad!!
Wait. What is CENI-S? I have never heard of the S part. I am so out of touch with the cofc experience.
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
Re: Agricola
Isaiah 56: 7
Let the wicked give up his ways, the sinful man his plans; Let him turn back to the Lord, and He will pardon him. To (turn back to) our God, for He freely forgives.
Not the only example, just the one I found the fastest.
Let the wicked give up his ways, the sinful man his plans; Let him turn back to the Lord, and He will pardon him. To (turn back to) our God, for He freely forgives.
Not the only example, just the one I found the fastest.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Agricola
Ezekiel 18:20-23
*btw, that's why Jesus' death can't be extended to forgive anybody else, according to Jewish thought. He wasn't personally guilty (let's assume) therefore his death was a miscarriage of justice. Sad, but ineffective. A person can only effectively repent for his own sins, not anyone else's - not even a child or a parent.
Ezekiel 18: 31-32
The person who sins, he alone shall die. A child shall not share the burden of a parent's guilt, nor shall a parent share the burden of a child's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous shall be accounted to him alone, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be accounted to him alone.*
Moreover, if the wicked one repents of all the sins that he committed and keeps all My laws and does what is just and right, he shall live; he shall not die.
None of the transgressions he committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness he has practiced, he shall live.
Is it my desire that the wicked person shall die? - says the Lord God. It is rather that he shall turn back ('repent') from his ways and live.
*btw, that's why Jesus' death can't be extended to forgive anybody else, according to Jewish thought. He wasn't personally guilty (let's assume) therefore his death was a miscarriage of justice. Sad, but ineffective. A person can only effectively repent for his own sins, not anyone else's - not even a child or a parent.
Ezekiel 18: 31-32
Cast away all the transgressions by which you have offended, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit, that you many not die, O House of Israel.
For it is not My desire that anyone shall die - declares the Lord God. Repent, therefore, and live!
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Agricola
Amos 5: 21 -23
Clear statement that bringing a sacrifice will not 'buy' forgiveness.I loathe, I spurn your festivals, I am not appeased by your solemn assemblies.
If you offer Me burnt offerings - or your meal offerings - I will not accept them; I will pay no heed to your gifts of fatlings (sacrificial animals).
Spare Me the sound of your hymns, and let Me not hear the music of your lutes.
But let justice well up like water,
Righteousness like an unfailing stream.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Agricola
Hope that helps.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Agricola
Another thing too. The sacrifices could not have any detectable blemish. By the time Jesus was nailed to the cross he was very much blemished. He had been beaten with whips and had a crown of thorns put on his head no doubt cutting him.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx
Re: Agricola
He also didn't die at the Temple, he wasn't slaughtered on an altar, the person(s) who killed him weren't priests, and his throat wasn't slit at all.
His death in no way meets any of the requirements of a sacrifice, laying aside that human sacrifices were totally forbidden.
His death in no way meets any of the requirements of a sacrifice, laying aside that human sacrifices were totally forbidden.
History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.
Re: Agricola
Another Question.
When it mentions that God is going to send Elijah the Prophet back, is there anything in that prophecy/declaration to make one think the person isn't literally going to be Elijah? After all, the Bible does not say Elijah died but went to Heaven in a fiery chariot.
When it mentions that God is going to send Elijah the Prophet back, is there anything in that prophecy/declaration to make one think the person isn't literally going to be Elijah? After all, the Bible does not say Elijah died but went to Heaven in a fiery chariot.
The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.----Karl Marx