Holy Spirit IS the Bible

[Shrubbery]

Recently, I've heard my preacher say several times that the Holy Spirit IS the words in the Bible. So the Holy Spirit dwelled in early Christians via the miraculous spiritual gifts, which have ceased. And today the Holy Spirit dwells in us by reading the Bible, because the Holy Spirit is the contents of the Bible.

Note: I don't believe any of that.

So my question would be... If since around mid-2nd century, when anyone with miraculous spiritual gifts has died, the Holy Spirit has only dwelled in people via the Bible, does that mean that the 99.9% of Christians who COULDN'T READ during those several hundred years didn't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? It seems like this Holy Spirit = the Bible is somewhat elitist/modernist... I mean sure, you could hear the Bible read at church on Sunday, but you couldn't study it. You couldn't dig into it. You couldn't compare one part to another or match up the pieces of the puzzle to find the pattern for the work and worship of the church. Up until the Europeans discovered the printing press (after the Chinese had had one for a while) in the 1500's, very few people knew how to read. The commoners certainly couldn't. Even in more modern times, until compulsory school laws started becoming the norm in developed countries, most citizens couldn't read. Having so many people around us able to read is a very new thing in the grand scheme of things.

[Ivy]

Recently, I've heard my preacher say several times that the Holy Spirit IS the words in the Bible. So the Holy Spirit dwelled in early Christians via the miraculous spiritual gifts, which have ceased. And today the Holy Spirit dwells in us by reading the Bible, because the Holy Spirit is the contents of the Bible.

That is basically what I heard in the cofc.

[SolaDude]

It was such a bizarre teaching to me, that is, that somehow the Holy Spirit morphed into a book, when spirits are by nature non-material....now it seems one could argue about extremely miraculous moves of the HS by the apostles ceasing with time (but exactly at what point in time??)....however, I never understood the leap to the conclusion that the HS ceased to exist as the HS, but changed into some sort of "physical" substitute provided by a printed book that seemed to "recreate" the HS in you when you read it.....

But it does give credence to worship of the Bible, i.e., bibliolatry, since the Bible is essentially seen as a written substitute for God, which IMO characterizes the CofC.....

[Ivy]

It was such a bizarre teaching to me, that is, that somehow the Holy Spirit morphed into a book, when spirits are by nature non-material....now it seems one could argue about extremely miraculous moves of the HS by the apostles ceasing with time (but exactly at what point in time??)....however, I never understood the leap to the conclusion that the HS ceased to exist as the HS, but changed into some sort of "physical" substitute provided by a printed book that seemed to "recreate" the HS in you when you read it.....

But it does give credence to worship of the Bible, i.e., bibliolatry, since the Bible is essentially seen as a written substitute for God, which IMO characterizes the CofC.....

I know, Sola!! It really is a bizarre teaching when you ponder it. They really didn't like the concept of the Holy Spirit.....maybe because it seemed mystical and out of their control? So interesting to talk about now. If it's in a book, you absorb it through your intellect, and they do like that.

If it's "better felt than told" you'd best stay away from it.

I loved my time in pentecostalism / neopentecostalism because it was ok to have mystical / spiritual experiences and feelings. It was part of my overall healing from the nonemotional dogma of the cofc.

[SolaDude]

I loved my time in pentecostalism / neopentecostalism because it was ok to have mystical / spiritual experiences and feelings. It was part of my overall healing from the nonemotional dogma of the cofc.

Cool beans, Ivy....I never understood the "evil" of emotion and feeling seemingly projected by the CofC...it's the epitome of "dissonance", is it not? That is your whole life is transformed and made eternal, but you can't express the "feeling" of that withiin your being....when your being wishes to overflow and really explode....(sorry, I'm starting to get worked up, so need to go cool off...)

[B.H.]

So in Genesis ! when it said the Spirit was hovering over the waters there was in reality a giant Bible hovering over the waters?????

The Spirit inspired the Apostles to write the books in the Bible. So the Bible inspired the Apostles to write the Bible?????

I know the typical Church of Christ preacher has a low intellectual calibre but geesh that was stupid.

[Shrubbery]

So in Genesis ! when it said the Spirit was hovering over the waters there was in reality a giant Bible hovering over the waters?????

The Spirit inspired the Apostles to write the books in the Bible. So the Bible inspired the Apostles to write the Bible?????

I know the typical Church of Christ preacher has a low intellectual calibre but geesh that was stupid.

That's not quite what he meant. In Genesis, the Spirit was actually hovering over the waters. In the NT, the Spirit caused miraculous spiritual gifts in the apostles and the people that the apostles laid hands on. The Spirit also inspired the authors of the NT. Once the miraculous spiritual gifts ceased (I guess when the last person died who had had the apostles' hands on them), the Spirit stopped interacting directly in people's lives in that manner. So today, when the Spirit is talking to us, it's doing so by us reading the Bible and seeing what the Spirit said via the physical hands of the apostles (why the Spirit couldn't directly write these things, I don't know?). Now, the preacher also said that he does believe the Spirit works in our lives today. That's why we pray. But it's not done the way it happened in the NT. Or something like that. Really, I'm fuzzy on how he thinks the Spirit works in our lives today. None of it makes much sense.

It dawned on me that the coc is very anti-spiritual... like they don't believe you feel the presence of God or are physically indwelled with the Holy Spirit, there are no miracles performed today... They believe all that stuff happened in Bible times, but now if someone is healed, it's got to be fake (and I agree that it's fake). They pray to God but don't believe in miracles. They don't seem to expect God to actually do anything. It's like they don't really believe in supernatural, but you need to follow the rules of the ancient book so you don't go to hell. Because heaven and hell are totally real when all this other stuff isn't.

Reminds me of a meme my Catholic friend posted... It's a quote from the pope (I haven't verified that it's a real quote) and it says something like how you pray for God to feed the poor, then you go feed the poor yourself. That's how it works. I agree with the sentiment of the quote (that you should go feed the poor instead of just praying that God do it), but it strikes me as odd that you'd pray for something and then not expect it to happen? If you're the one feeding, do you even need to bother praying? Is it that you don't believe God will feed the poor? Just stuff to ponder...

[Ivy]

I'm fuzzy on how he thinks the Spirit works in our lives today. None of it makes much sense.

That's because the cognitive dissonance blew his little circuits.

[SolaDude]

The healthier perspective IMO relating to inspiration of the scriptures is the notion that all scripture from Genesis to Revelation are inspired words of God, from God, about God, His Spirit, His Son, His character, etc., etc., etc...and all of them act as conduits or vehicles "pointing" the reader to an end, that being to God Himself.....so readers can engage in a conversation perhaps like "what I believe seems to me at this point in time to be closer to what Scripture says than what you believe it says right now, even after we have fully discussed our perspectives with one another"....and such a stance should be respected by anyone and everyone, except the CofC, of course.....but I can't wrap my head around their thinking on the Holy Spirit, in fact, it is just so convoluted, I don't think they could possibly know themselves....

[teresa]

I agree with the sentiment of the quote (that you should go feed the poor instead of just praying that God do it), but it strikes me as odd that you'd pray for something and then not expect it to happen? If you're the one feeding, do you even need to bother praying? Is it that you don't believe God will feed the poor? Just stuff to ponder...

The CoC thinks of salvation as going to heaven when we die, but for some Christians today at least -- and I think for the earliest Christians -- salvation is about being rescued from the powers of evil in order to get back on the path that God intended for human beings from the beginning -- enjoying peace and prosperity and loving one another in this world. I don't know the CoC view, but some Christians would say that communicating with God (praying and listening) makes them more aware that they have a role to play as a participant in God's goal to set the world to rights.