Holy Spirit IS the Bible

[SolaDude]

I might add to that that salvation in scriptures is one very broad concept, not a singular, constricted concept as noted by Teresa per the CofC....God is our salvation too, in the lives we live, from ourselves, from harm, fear, want etc. and as a provider of peace, etc.....in fact there are many "compound" names for Jehovah denoting many of these "salvations".....Agricola can speak to this....but here's a list...I don't know if it is exhaustive or not....

•El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
•El Elyon (The Most High God)
•Adonai (Lord, Master)
•Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
•Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)
•Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)
•Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals)
•Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)
•Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
•Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
•El Olam (The Everlasting God)
•Elohim (God)
•Qanna (Jealous)
•Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
•Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
•Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)

[gordie91]

I too struggled with the notion of the Holy Spirit only contained in the Book. It seemed somewhat strange as well to pray for healing of a sick person but not have any inclination for direct intervention. They would also cite providence in place of miracles today, and here again to me that seemed somewhat contradictory because if the Holy Spirit is only experienced through the Book then why would we pray for healing, GUIDANCE, or anything else that would require direct action?

I suggested, why not just be thankful for recovery of the sick and the salvation provided through Christ. Also if the goal is to go to heaven when you die why do you all worry and pray for some kind of deliverance from illness? It seems to me that you get to go to heaven sooner! But, as Teresa noted, if one views salvation in terms of Christ's victory and defeat of death (physical death is a consequence of the original sin and the fallen nature) then this life isn't so bad and sickness and death in this life has been conquered so physical death is not, theoretically, that fearsome. Only not to be with Christ does the process become fearful. Right?

If God somehow through his Spirit heals people today with miracles or at the very least with laws yet understood in nature, how does it change the dynamic of what they believe about the all sufficiency and authority of the Bible? I think for some it does change something and maybe someone on here that has thought it through could elaborate.

[SolaDude]

....I suggested, why not just be thankful for recovery of the sick and the salvation provided through Christ. Also if the goal is to go to heaven when you die why do you all worry and pray for some kind of deliverance from illness? It seems to me that you get to go to heaven sooner! But, as Teresa noted, if one views salvation in terms of Christ's victory and defeat of death (physical death is a consequence of the original sin and the fallen nature) then this life isn't so bad and sickness and death in this life has been conquered so physical death is not, theoretically, that fearsome. Only not to be with Christ does the process become fearful. Right?....

Yep...also, I seemed to notice that relationally in the Church of Christ, people greet one another with "how are you" or "how have you been" which is coded for "are you in good physical health right now?"....because the response seems to be a review of physical ailments that one or one's loved ones had just been going through....when there are many things to share with one another...struggles at many levels of life and there are those in other non-CofC groups who might ask "what are you going though that I can pray about for you" (not just meaning physical ailments)....such a sentiment would ISTM be seen by a CofC devotee as a question about their physical health (or perhaps even an inappropriate question altogether) and so therefore, it would not make much sense in their theology to pray anyway for much more than just speaking to God a personal "hope" that they will be comfortable and get well.

[FinallyFree]

I have never heard anyone say the Holy Spirit is the Bible. That is dumb.

[Shrubbery]

I too struggled with the notion of the Holy Spirit only contained in the Book. It seemed somewhat strange as well to pray for healing of a sick person but not have any inclination for direct intervention. They would also cite providence in place of miracles today, and here again to me that seemed somewhat contradictory because if the Holy Spirit is only experienced through the Book then why would we pray for healing, GUIDANCE, or anything else that would require direct action?

Yes, and the coc will pray for ready recollection of the sermon and other such things... guiding in some manner. But then they have conflicting ideas of the Holy Spirit actually guiding anyone.

I suggested, why not just be thankful for recovery of the sick and the salvation provided through Christ. Also if the goal is to go to heaven when you die why do you all worry and pray for some kind of deliverance from illness? It seems to me that you get to go to heaven sooner!

I have often wondered that as well! I suppose there are occasionally people who do want to die sooner rather than later, but most people try to live as long as possible. And coc'ers pray for them to do so, even though they believe they'll go to heaven.

And things like abortion (note that I am not pro-abortion... I am pro-preventing abortion through means other than legislation)... If babies go to heaven when they die, and this world is so awful and there is suffering in it, shouldn't they be happy that the aborted babies are going to heaven?

I personally have always enjoyed my life and wanted to stay. So the sermons talking about us being sojourners in a foreign land have never made sense to me. But that may be my deep down skepticism of there being a heaven/hell anyway.

[agricola]

I might add to that that salvation in scriptures is one very broad concept, not a singular, constricted concept as noted by Teresa per the CofC....God is our salvation too, in the lives we live, from ourselves, from harm, fear, want etc. and as a provider of peace, etc.....in fact there are many "compound" names for Jehovah denoting many of these "salvations".....Agricola can speak to this....but here's a list...I don't know if it is exhaustive or not....

•El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
•El Elyon (The Most High God)
•Adonai (Lord, Master)
•Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
•Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)
•Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)
•Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals)
•Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)
•Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
•Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
•El Olam (The Everlasting God)
•Elohim (God)
•Qanna (Jealous)
•Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
•Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
•Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)

Just commenting - the word 'Jehovah' is a made up word. It is not God's name nor is it any version of a name for God, except in the eyes of - forgive me - poorly educated English speakers.

It is constructed (wrongly) from the consonants of the Hebrew Name of God AS TRANSLITERATED BY GERMANS, together with the VOWELS of the word 'Lord' in Hebrew (Adonai), THEN transported whole hog into ENGLISH which looks at the German J (pronounced like Y) and reads 'J' as in English.

J is not a sound that occurs in Hebrew. There is no 'J'.

Anyway, by traditions from the Middle East, there are 99 names of God, plus another which nobody knows, but camels.

[Ivy]

I've come to realize that everything I once thought I knew about the Jewish faith was wrong....since the ones expounding on it in the churches through the years
did not know squat about it.

[agricola]

I have never heard anyone say the Holy Spirit is the Bible. That is dumb.

Really? that was absolutely the standard teaching in the coc when I was growing up! The HS only acted in the world because the NT wasn't written down yet, and as soon as it was, the HS didn't show up anymore, because the NT WAS the 'HS'. Nicely trapped and written down so there could be no surprises I guess.

[Ivy]

I have never heard anyone say the Holy Spirit is the Bible. That is dumb.

Really? that was absolutely the standard teaching in the coc when I was growing up! The HS only acted in the world because the NT wasn't written down yet, and as soon as it was, the HS didn't show up anymore, because the NT WAS the 'HS'. Nicely trapped and written down so there could be no surprises I guess.

FF, that's what I was taught by cofc. (1950s - 1970s) I don't know if the NI cofc has evolved in its understanding from those times. Maybe some more recent members can fill me in.

Agri, I think it made the early cofc fathers more comfortable for it to be "confined"...like you said, so there would be no surprises. For example, like someone standing up and speaking in tongues in church.

[Opie]

Ivy, in speaking of the early CoC church fathers, Barton Stone and his side of the movement were devoted believers in the power of the Holy Spirit in the lives of Christians. They always claimed that the Spirit was still active, and that Christians needed be open to the power and urgings of the Spirit.

It was the Alexander Campbell side of the movement that had little or no use for the Holy Spirit. They were content to first confine the Holy Spirit to the days of the apostles, and then confine the Holy Spirit to the printed word. I think Campbell was uncomfortable with the idea of the Holy Spirit because he tried to be a rational thinker, and he wasn't able to rationally explain something like the Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately, Campbell had a much more charismatic and persuasive personality than did Stone, and it was the Campbell side that won out.