I’m struggling
Re: I’m struggling
Hi Lisa, I read your post with a great deal of interest. I'm very glad that you found Celebrate Recovery. My wife and I have been helping out with a local CR program for several years and have seen many people during that time who have been blessed. CR is ready and willing to accept you as you are.
Scripture may not contain the exact words "personal relationship with Jesus", but the concept and idea is found in several places. For example, see John 10:1-16 as well as others. Don't let the
CoC mislead with their legalism.
The CoC has been in serious denial for years and years, claiming very loudly that they are not a denomination. However, anyone who honestly looks at history can see that the CoC is an American denomination that started at Cane Ridge, Kentucky in the early 1800s. If you leave the CoC for another group, you are only switching from one denomination to another. Please keep searching!
Scripture may not contain the exact words "personal relationship with Jesus", but the concept and idea is found in several places. For example, see John 10:1-16 as well as others. Don't let the
CoC mislead with their legalism.
The CoC has been in serious denial for years and years, claiming very loudly that they are not a denomination. However, anyone who honestly looks at history can see that the CoC is an American denomination that started at Cane Ridge, Kentucky in the early 1800s. If you leave the CoC for another group, you are only switching from one denomination to another. Please keep searching!
"If I had to define my own theme, it would be that of a person who absorbed some of the worst the church has to offer, yet still landed in the loving arms of God." (From the book 'Soul Survivor' by Philip Yancy)
Re: I’m struggling
You mean it didn't go underground after the first century then re-emerge in the 1800s??Opie wrote: The CoC has been in serious denial for years and years, claiming very loudly that they are not a denomination. However, anyone who honestly looks at history can see that the CoC is an American denomination that started at Cane Ridge, Kentucky in the early 1800s.
Re: I’m struggling
Lisa, the COC I sometimes attend is really a great church. They are so far from the hell-fire COC of my youth, and it’s really refreshing. They go on medical missions (where they actually help people medically, not just deliver “the word”, they even have a veterinarian team that vaccinate farm animals and pets and give medical care to them) many people clap during singing and raise their hands, they have a youth team that “signs” the songs for the deaf. They have a pre-school that does all types of activities throughout the year like fall festivals and Christmas programs and work with other denominations in community service projects. Several years back they were searching for a new preacher and about half of the preacher interviewing committee was made up of women from the congregation. You never hear the one true church garbage there. The preacher is pretty young and graduated from Abilene Christian College. His sermons are all about love, grace, and service to others. I’ve never once heard him do the five finger plan of salvation or make the plea to the congregation about confessing your public sins. Of course all of the reasons have made this particular church “unsound” by my visiting family and for a period of time forced me to another “sound” congregation due to the pressure from my family (and my own still brain-washed confusion). Oddly enough their pressure actually only fueled my ever present feelings of doubt and have ultimately led me to my current state of disbelief. However I’m a closet atheist and still attend church a couple times a month, but it’s been pretty nice escaping the choking hold of both my family and the other COC. The doom and gloom of the COC denomination isn’t looking good for folks like my family, as more and more COC are becoming like the church I attend now, my family drives about 30 minutes past multiple other closer COC’s because it’s the only “sound” one in the area 
Re: I’m struggling
Sorry Soladude... didn't mean to upset you!SolaDude wrote:You mean it didn't go underground after the first century then re-emerge in the 1800s??Opie wrote: The CoC has been in serious denial for years and years, claiming very loudly that they are not a denomination. However, anyone who honestly looks at history can see that the CoC is an American denomination that started at Cane Ridge, Kentucky in the early 1800s.
"If I had to define my own theme, it would be that of a person who absorbed some of the worst the church has to offer, yet still landed in the loving arms of God." (From the book 'Soul Survivor' by Philip Yancy)
Re: I’m struggling
OPIE!!! Say it ain't so!!!Opie wrote: However, anyone who honestly looks at history can see that the CoC is an American denomination that started at Cane Ridge, Kentucky in the early 1800s.
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
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Lisalanell
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:32 pm
Re: I’m struggling
oh, wow y'all. I so appreciate the replies. so the Bible doesn't say anything about making a public confession?????? I have not thought about that. Lord knows, I've made a few........ one in particular after listening to the preacher rant about the one true church..... (I had disclosed to a "friend" that I thought many denominations were good and one as good as the other) and so I like a whooped dog, "went forward". it's crazy. ok. I just am learning how to navigate this sight.... I just saw that there was a page two and got so excited for the replies! so if I want to reply to a certain person, I highlight it and address them? I am unsure about the private message thing...... how it works
Re: I’m struggling
I hear you, Lisalanell, on the confession "walk of shame" thing. Have done many myself....in the distant past. I think the bible only says something like "confess your faults one to another" but not anything like "going forward" or having to confess in front of the entire congregation. (Or going "down to the front" as we called it in my childhood church.)Lisalanell wrote:oh, wow y'all. I so appreciate the replies. so the Bible doesn't say anything about making a public confession?????? I have not thought about that. Lord knows, I've made a few........ one in particular after listening to the preacher rant about the one true church..... (I had disclosed to a "friend" that I thought many denominations were good and one as good as the other) and so I like a whooped dog, "went forward". it's crazy. ok.
~Stone Cold Ivyrose Austin~
Re: I’m struggling
Welcome Lisa. It sounds like maybe you do not have a lot of CofC options in your area...or maybe you do. It is very hard and scary to not think that leaving CofC is the same as leaving God...but that is the basic concept. And after so many years of equating/associating the two together it is very scary to think about leaving.
And whatever a "personal relationship with Jesus" means or doesn't mean...how is that anyone else's business down at the CofC or any other org...it is after all "personal".
Oh And you might want to start with baby steps on the hands thing....maybe just put your hands out like you are carrying a flat screen TV...before you go all hands in the air. LOL Just having some fun.
This is Tim Hawkins video on hand raising techniques
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2_ezOBa2A
And whatever a "personal relationship with Jesus" means or doesn't mean...how is that anyone else's business down at the CofC or any other org...it is after all "personal".
Oh And you might want to start with baby steps on the hands thing....maybe just put your hands out like you are carrying a flat screen TV...before you go all hands in the air. LOL Just having some fun.
This is Tim Hawkins video on hand raising techniques
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2_ezOBa2A
Isn't the world wonderful...I am all for rational optimism and I am staying positive.
Re: I’m struggling
Hi Lisa,
While I have not had to deal with an addiction I did come from a legalistic background and through time and personal study I've emerged a different person. Change is difficult, especially when it involves religious doctrines we have grown up with. Those ideas won't necessarily change overnight but will in time with study and a willingness to entertain the idea that what you believe might not necessarily be what is biblical. It didn't hurt to have a wife who apparently at a very young age began to question some of the doctrines taught not just in CoC's but in churches in general. As she began to see me arrive at different conclusions she opened up to share her ideas. Initially she would not because I was so entrenched in the traditional dogma and would give her a hard time if she disagreed. Thankfully she was very patient with me.
Christ came to free us from laws/rules/regulations as Galatians 5 indicates. Human nature though, especially religious human nature wants boundaries because if we know the boundaries and we stay within them we know we are saved. But since many also acknowledge that we are imperfect and do not stay within those boundaries consistently there is a tendency to feel lost one day and on top of the salvation mountain the next. That emotional roller coaster and baggage is not what Christ wanted us to bear. You may be familiar with the unspoken idea that grace somehow doesn't really cover your failings/sins if you disobey God which seems to be a fairly common theme in many CoC's or with many members. I've had discussions on this with various family members and friends. They believe that grace doesn't cover you if you aren't being obedient and I have yet to fully understand how that works as grace is unmerited/unearned favor. Additionally I've come to the conclusion that obedience is simply obeying the gospel to come to Christ and can back that up with scripture. It isn't (in my humble opinion) trying to obey every last command or what some think are commands. To illustrate what I mean let's take the example of the rich man in Matthew 19:16-30 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
16 Just then, a man came up to Jesus. He asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to receive eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only one who is good. If you want to enter the kingdom, obey the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” the man asked.
Jesus said, “ ‘Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not be a false witness. 19 Honor your father and mother.’ (Exodus 20:12–16; Deuteronomy 5:16–20) And ‘love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ ” (Leviticus 19:18)
20 “I have obeyed all those commandments,” the young man said. “What else do I need to do?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell everything you have. Give the money to those who are poor. You will have treasure in heaven. Then come and follow me.”
Jesus enumerates very specific commands to follow to inherit eternal life. Nowhere else in the Bible is there such a list by Christ that is very narrow and specific. You don't see rules like don't drink, don't dance, pray for forgiveness after each infraction and so on. The rich man acknowledged that he was already doing all these things and felt there must be something more and note what Jesus said. To be perfect sell everything you have and give the money to the poor then come follow me. Interestingly Jesus actually acknowledged how we could be perfect but that perfection is not required to inherit eternal life. Does that not seem much easier than what many are teaching? Yet there it is in all its simplicity and doesn't even include every commandment in the ten commandments nor the multitude of do's and don'ts we are often told we must follow. Christ says my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Many Christians acknowledge that but then they speak a different language when it comes to the do's and don'ts. My wife and I no longer attend a CoC regularly but do when we visit family and have no issue doing so. We don't condemn any of our family or friends for their continued affiliation in the CoC but we do condemn actions by those whom we perceive to be hurting others in the name of God.
I have much more I could say but I hope this helps in some small way. ~ recovering legalist
While I have not had to deal with an addiction I did come from a legalistic background and through time and personal study I've emerged a different person. Change is difficult, especially when it involves religious doctrines we have grown up with. Those ideas won't necessarily change overnight but will in time with study and a willingness to entertain the idea that what you believe might not necessarily be what is biblical. It didn't hurt to have a wife who apparently at a very young age began to question some of the doctrines taught not just in CoC's but in churches in general. As she began to see me arrive at different conclusions she opened up to share her ideas. Initially she would not because I was so entrenched in the traditional dogma and would give her a hard time if she disagreed. Thankfully she was very patient with me.
Christ came to free us from laws/rules/regulations as Galatians 5 indicates. Human nature though, especially religious human nature wants boundaries because if we know the boundaries and we stay within them we know we are saved. But since many also acknowledge that we are imperfect and do not stay within those boundaries consistently there is a tendency to feel lost one day and on top of the salvation mountain the next. That emotional roller coaster and baggage is not what Christ wanted us to bear. You may be familiar with the unspoken idea that grace somehow doesn't really cover your failings/sins if you disobey God which seems to be a fairly common theme in many CoC's or with many members. I've had discussions on this with various family members and friends. They believe that grace doesn't cover you if you aren't being obedient and I have yet to fully understand how that works as grace is unmerited/unearned favor. Additionally I've come to the conclusion that obedience is simply obeying the gospel to come to Christ and can back that up with scripture. It isn't (in my humble opinion) trying to obey every last command or what some think are commands. To illustrate what I mean let's take the example of the rich man in Matthew 19:16-30 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
16 Just then, a man came up to Jesus. He asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to receive eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only one who is good. If you want to enter the kingdom, obey the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” the man asked.
Jesus said, “ ‘Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not be a false witness. 19 Honor your father and mother.’ (Exodus 20:12–16; Deuteronomy 5:16–20) And ‘love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ ” (Leviticus 19:18)
20 “I have obeyed all those commandments,” the young man said. “What else do I need to do?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell everything you have. Give the money to those who are poor. You will have treasure in heaven. Then come and follow me.”
Jesus enumerates very specific commands to follow to inherit eternal life. Nowhere else in the Bible is there such a list by Christ that is very narrow and specific. You don't see rules like don't drink, don't dance, pray for forgiveness after each infraction and so on. The rich man acknowledged that he was already doing all these things and felt there must be something more and note what Jesus said. To be perfect sell everything you have and give the money to the poor then come follow me. Interestingly Jesus actually acknowledged how we could be perfect but that perfection is not required to inherit eternal life. Does that not seem much easier than what many are teaching? Yet there it is in all its simplicity and doesn't even include every commandment in the ten commandments nor the multitude of do's and don'ts we are often told we must follow. Christ says my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Many Christians acknowledge that but then they speak a different language when it comes to the do's and don'ts. My wife and I no longer attend a CoC regularly but do when we visit family and have no issue doing so. We don't condemn any of our family or friends for their continued affiliation in the CoC but we do condemn actions by those whom we perceive to be hurting others in the name of God.
I have much more I could say but I hope this helps in some small way. ~ recovering legalist